Countdown from £28k...

ryanm8655

alt80 said:

@ryanm8655 Thanks. Appreciate it’ll be a while for you but if you’re serious about the BTLs feel free to send me a msg anytime.

I’m still in touch with a few people from school, some moved away, some still there.

Not a massive Audi fan tbh but love the RS6 Avant and tbh prefer the estates too.

Think I need a miracle with the mindset haha.

Your dating experience with the cards declining brought back some memories haha. Not had a card declined but took my wife out to this really nice restaurant (£300+ for a meal), this was just before I remortgaged the BTLs, cards maxed and knew I was going to ‘pay at pump’ for petrol earlier that day because you can take £99 petrol but it doesn’t debit the account for a day or two so I could still take wife to the restaurant that evening. Just the fact I know that is embarrassing to admit tbh one of my junior staff had burned through his overdraft and I suggested doing that of course he was like ‘how would you know’...’keep a very close eye on the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves’ worked well enough fml.

Often used to play the fuel light game with my RRS too, actually ran out once on the M1 as well lol never forget my mate bringing petrol (didn’t dare tell wife haha) and saying ‘you’ve made us look like a right pair of p*keys’ though he did have the foresight to bring two cans (a gallon of petrol don’t get you far in a V8). Looking back at that I’ve actually come a long way and very nearly did f**k my credit record back then.

Thanks - will likely take you up on that once the debt is gone and I’m on to the next goal ha.

Didn’t realise that re: fuel, ha. Your story also strikes a chord though...my debt got really bad back when I was on about £35k in my first couple of years on the fast stream. Girl I’d been dating a long time (absolute nightmare but that’s another story - and the same girl that didn’t speak to me for two weeks when I told her I had £12k of debt ) - had to go to her brothers wedding. Felt I needed new shoes and suit etc. To make a good impression plus need to pay for drinks, present, meals and fuel etc. (It was a couple of nights away). I was absolutely broke, as in didn’t even have credit available. Decided to get a consolidation loan and clear all my debt plus have a few K of money available. At the time the credit wasn’t on ridiculous interest and having been quoted a low rate for the loan, the rate I was offered was ridiculous, 16.1%. In a blind panic I took the loan to kick the can down the road and go to the wedding looking dapper and not having to worry about money and act plush with cash around her family. I actually recovered it a bit from there, got a higher paying job and started clearing it down, knowing how she’d react if she knew. But that was the low point for me as all my credit stream had run out. Even though I ended up with a lot more debt in the long run, I never literally ran out of options for credit. Never want to be there again and always plan to have a bit of cash in hand from now on.

Actually would’ve been ok on my previous salary with no debt, could’ve sustained my lifestyle for the most part, just never would have progressed in terms of buying a place etc. So thing should be easier on the new salary and with no debt.

Not much to update on. £46 DD for virgin came out. Got about a £1200 in my account so could clear some more debt but will wait for now. Do need to pay for accommodation for a stag do next year at £127, which wasn’t anticipated (it isn’t until May but they’re booking stuff now). It’s fine, I can absorb it. Also have my MOT booked for just after pay day, which was anticipated though having spoken to
my mechanic he is recommending I get work done for the MOT that I was hoping to avoid...it’s a few hundred quid I was planning to avoid by selling the car but will mean I can aim for top whack on what my car is worth and hopefully make most of that back. A bit annoying though. This might mean I don’t make my £2500 target unless I can find cutbacks elsewhere. Have stuck a couple of expensive fragrances up for sale to fund it, though not sure they’ll sell as I’m asking high prices. Plan was to hang onto them as they should increase in value (one is a special edition of an already sought after fragrance that I got for a steal). Even if I can’t make my full £2500 target, it doesn’t make too much difference, it’ll just mean a bigger final payment in my December pay packet to get debt free...

Job is a bit of a drag, working hard but not getting a lot of appreciation and finding my new boss a bit odd. Very little guidance but seems to expect a lot. I’m new to grade and had zero training so it is a bit frustrating. Especially as they are expecting things that mates in other teams aren’t expected to do. But just need to suck it up and put the effort in to get it done (it’s all micro planning stuff/admin that I think is overkill, personally but will be helpful for my development if I do move on/up at some stage or even in another role where I’m managing a much bigger team). Just tough when there are other things more critical to delivery to sort out. Pretty certain the civil service isn’t for me in the longterm. Ideally want my own business or at least to be doing something with a more commercial focus and where I can impact things. Rather than being told what is happening by ministers and having to deliver that, even if I disagree. I just picked the wrong career ha. Will suck it up and work hard regardless though, want to form good habits and things might change...

alt80

Anytime mate whenever you’re ready. Can talk the hind legs off a donkey about property so you have been warned lol. 

You can thank me when you need the petrol but broke, all been there. Christ we’ve both got some tales to tell haha. Hadn’t realised you’d consolidated in the past - reckon a lot of us have been there before but so many self righteous diaries about knitting your own yoghurt or whatever I’ll be honest I wonder how on earth they got in debt in the first place.

Only come close to running out of all options for credit when I did the blind panic portfolio remo. Never felt so desperate in my life as when the valuer came out the whole thing was awful should have never took a card out again but I did and now I’m here. Determined to pay it off without remos / selling property this time. I know I could be free of it if I sold a few properties but would have to get the money out not tax efficient and not good for me in long run.

100% you’ll get there with your goals. Can tell you’ve got drive maybe took eye off the ball a bit whilst the debts were bad know I have. Are you in a career that would directly transfer to consultancy?

purplehippo276

Catching up on your diary Ryan, and wow, just 1.5 months to go!  This time between now and December must be really dragging for you, when you can make the final payment and just get on with your life! Do you have any plans to celebrate?  Or just full throttle into saving and moving?

Smashingitnow

OMG you're nearly there! I'm furious! And disappointed!!! I mean I was enjoying the diary! And then you go and pay off all your debt so there's no more diary to read! Yo'ure letting us all down once again!
Love the chat above re dating and debt....OMG the stress I have had on this issue over the years. Needs to be a forum of its own. They have the debt free mums and dads forum. Surely money and dating deserves a forum!!!!

unicorn1984

Wow amazing well done!!! I had almost £10k debt in January this year- I never thought I would ever get rid of it!! I had 14 creditors and most of this goes back to my Uni days, I then worked in Debt Management.... so I learnt what they could enforce, etc and realised apart from a bad credit score there was nothing they could take/repossess etc terrible attitude I know!! I decided to grow up this year- and 10 months on I have just over £2k to pay and have 3 creditors left! One of those will be paid off by the end of October so I SHOULD be debt free by February. Its SUCH a relief, but sitting down and looking at what I spend and cutting back its amazing what you can pay off!  I am always skint LOL but I have been putting around £700 a month to this, so will be so much sweeter when I have that as disposable income again! Does make you wonder what the hell I spent that on before all this, its incredible! 

Sarahwithlove

I notice you mention buying and renting a room out but don't want to go into a flat or house share when renting. I think if you can find the right one it could work great long term for you when comes to saving for a deposit so I'd recommend giving it some more thought. Do you have any friends who are in similiar situation that you could rent somewhere together with? There are pros and cons to both but the amount you would save financially may be worth it if it means you can get a deposit together quicker. 

ryanm8655

alt80 said:

Anytime mate whenever you’re ready. Can talk the hind legs off a donkey about property so you have been warned lol. 

You can thank me when you need the petrol but broke, all been there. Christ we’ve both got some tales to tell haha. Hadn’t realised you’d consolidated in the past - reckon a lot of us have been there before but so many self righteous diaries about knitting your own yoghurt or whatever I’ll be honest I wonder how on earth they got in debt in the first place.

Only come close to running out of all options for credit when I did the blind panic portfolio remo. Never felt so desperate in my life as when the valuer came out the whole thing was awful should have never took a card out again but I did and now I’m here. Determined to pay it off without remos / selling property this time. I know I could be free of it if I sold a few properties but would have to get the money out not tax efficient and not good for me in long run.

100% you’ll get there with your goals. Can tell you’ve got drive maybe took eye off the ball a bit whilst the debts were bad know I have. Are you in a career that would directly transfer to consultancy?

Consultancy is an option. Definitely took my eye off the ball and just went with the flow for a long time/focussed on living life to the full outside of work and then just about did enough to keep a job ha. In hindsight I'd have been better off sticking with the big4 grad scheme, actually considering that route as same potential rewards as law but without two years of not earning while studying. Need to do something different. I'm working hard and giving the new job every chance but I just don't enjoy it, get no buzz from it, which I need. It's not even the money, I just don't enjoy the roles. Consultancy would have the bonus of not having to take a pay cut in the short term (and likely get a decent payrise, though crapper pension) but the problem is it would probably be public sector consultancy and I can't stand the civil service tbh. Just hate the way it works...it's a bit of a joke.

purplehippo276 said:

Catching up on your diary Ryan, and wow, just 1.5 months to go!  This time between now and December must be really dragging for you, when you can make the final payment and just get on with your life! Do you have any plans to celebrate?  Or just full throttle into saving and moving?

I think I'll likely take a break, go on some holidays and live a little, enjoy the spare cash and extra salary for a short period, then get onto the saving again (all within my means of course). The time is dragging a bit, not least because my payday is literally the last working day of the month ha. I suppose it's also considering the fact that I'll need to do a month of saving for the rent and deposit for a move too ha.

unicorn1984 said:

Wow amazing well done!!! I had almost £10k debt in January this year- I never thought I would ever get rid of it!! I had 14 creditors and most of this goes back to my Uni days, I then worked in Debt Management.... so I learnt what they could enforce, etc and realised apart from a bad credit score there was nothing they could take/repossess etc terrible attitude I know!! I decided to grow up this year- and 10 months on I have just over £2k to pay and have 3 creditors left! One of those will be paid off by the end of October so I SHOULD be debt free by February. Its SUCH a relief, but sitting down and looking at what I spend and cutting back its amazing what you can pay off!  I am always skint LOL but I have been putting around £700 a month to this, so will be so much sweeter when I have that as disposable income again! Does make you wonder what the hell I spent that on before all this, its incredible! 

Haha. Yeah I had this idea of finding an easy way out at one stage. Remeber considering taking as much credit as possible when it seemed like I was never getting out of debt, then going onto a debt management plan or declaring myself bankrupt or something...wasn't even that long ago that I had those thoughts but just felt such a helpless situation at the time. The only thing that stopped me was worrying about meeting someone and then having to explain down the line why I couldn't get a mortgage You're doing amazingly well. Must feel good to have the end so close! That was exactly my thinking. At one stage my minimum payments were not far off a grand. Having the extra income is going to be great, though a good chunk of it will be eaten up by rent if I get my own place.

Sarahwithlove said:

I notice you mention buying and renting a room out but don't want to go into a flat or house share when renting. I think if you can find the right one it could work great long term for you when comes to saving for a deposit so I'd recommend giving it some more thought. Do you have any friends who are in similiar situation that you could rent somewhere together with? There are pros and cons to both but the amount you would save financially may be worth it if it means you can get a deposit together quicker. 

Funny enough I had been thinking the same thing. If I found the right one it would be great. Made some good friends from previous flat shares but also had some terrible experiences where I didn't want to be in the house and just went out every night (didn't help the debt). No friends at the moment are looking for shares, most of them are shacked up with gf's, rent/own their own places or already in a share with other mates. Got one mate who currently lives at home but they're looking to buy and likely far out and I want to be more central (hate commuting and like to be able to walk home from nights out/dates etc. ha). A space did come up in a mate's flat, not a close mate (a friend of a friend) but would've been ideal but that was available right at the start of lockdown. If it was available now I'd probably jump at it. I'm willing to move into a flatshare if it's the right fit (the good thing is there is no real time pressure at the moment and I'm not so constrained by finances. Though a nice flatshare in the locations I'm after I'm probably looking at £900 per month and I reckon I could get a pretty nice 1 bed flat for £1250/£1300 in the current climate, obviously bills aren't being split etc. So all in probably looking at £550 per month more, which is a lot but then also not having to worry about making noise coming home, playing music, using the bathroom etc. The ideal would be meeting a girl and splitting it with them  
Update:
Sorry for the lack of update, been mega busy with work. While I've been replying to other diaries it's a bit more intense replying to your own, especially as I tend to just lay out all of my thoughts on the page.

Not a lot to report debt wise. My spends are a lot lower than usual, probably from working a lot and not really having time to spend. Credit card bill was about £650 this month, usually its a couple of hundred more, if not closer to £1k (I use it for 95% of my spends to get the avios) and £250 of that was fragrance purchases, which i plan to sell on, so not too bad. Hopefully I can keep that up.

While it hasn't been a booze free month, I have barely drank anyhting. Had a few beers last weekend (about 5 at home so not horrendous) and tonight I had 1 glass of red and 1 beer. At the height of lockdown stress I was drinking quite a bit on Friday and Saturday nights, probably accounted for a reasonable amount of my spends. This week was stressful at work and home life is also driving me a bit nuts again (not as bad as before) so I was really tempted to drink but in the end just couldn't be bothered. It's got to the stage where I know that not even booze will make me happy, tragic  

Not really enjoying the new job, it could be worse but I don't really rate my new boss and not getting any coaching or even time to learn. The approach seems to be chuck them in at the deep end and hope they float. That's fine but I wanted to learn and all I'm learning to do really is stay afloat, I'm not picking up any new skills really. I also remebered why I left central government in the first place. My old job wasn't great but central government bureaucracy and BS is something else. I have no desire to progress up the ranks and get no buzz from the role, it all seems a bit futile. So I need to move into something else in the long run. Law is the obvious choice but going from £65/70k to zero for two years is a tough pill to swallow And it would take me about 4 years to be where I am now, money wise. Granted, from there it keeps increasing at a decent rate. I'm working hard and will continue to do so but I'm already back to feeling like it's the wrong career for me, I wish I could go back to uni and make my choices again tbh. I hoped a new role and department might resolve that but ultimately things are the same except I am working hard again. Home life doesn't help. It's really hard to concentrate in the day time with so many people home plus a puppy running around. Likewise, I have to keep moving between rooms for privacy in meetings (which I spend most of the day in and out of) and even then have family members randomly waltz in as if I'm not working...on top of that I get the sense family are getting annoyed I'm not helping out more around the house (though have been driving people everywhere) but with the job I need to be on the ball, I can't be faffing around washing up or helping to prepare food in the middle of the day. it's just not the right environment and also contributes to the having to work so late...In my old job it was fine, I'd been there a longtime and knew the job inside out, plus it was far more slowly paced...just need to power through...not too many months left now. Everyone went out earlier and I was home alone, I could feel the weight lift off my shoulders and the weight clear...it was quite weird...Sure I'll miss them all when I'm not here but it will be nice to have my own space again.

Payday next Friday - Will work out the finances properly then but should be able to hit the £2500 target, though my car has it's MOT on the Monday. Natwest only has about £1600 left, so thinking clear that on payday (leaving just the one card left) and then see what the outcome of the MOT is before deciding what extra to clear from the Virgin card. Another £96 of DDs have come out. Got a couple of fragrances to sell and also think I'll have a sample clear out as well. Hopefully November can be as low spend as October has been. If I don't make any fragrance purchases then I reckon I could probably get the credit card bill under £500, which would be great. Do feel like I could do with a mini blowout, e.g. a weekend away with mates but that can't happen at the moment so just got to power through.

That turned into an essay, blimey!

If you read this far then congratualtions...

Thanks,
Ryan

alt80

Doing brilliantly on the debt front. The work situation sounds like it really needs sorting mate. Any margin in consultancy as a means to fund the Law career change? Still earning whilst doing the grad qual then straight into a job? Also realistically are you going to be able to move through the ranks in Law to get an equity position being a career changer rather than having gone straight into the field or are you going to be stuck at a certain point with the career as others will have a greater experience? Tbf not my industry but something to consider. Also worth considering why you feel you’ll be fulfilled in the Law field? Is it purely for financial reasons, if so are you really certain of getting into a position in Law that pays well - lots of the fields within that industry don’t make mega bucks, some do but what will give you the edge in a world where presumably there are a LOT of applicants and not too many jobs.

ryanm8655

alt80 said:

Doing brilliantly on the debt front. The work situation sounds like it really needs sorting mate. Any margin in consultancy as a means to fund the Law career change? Still earning whilst doing the grad qual then straight into a job? Also realistically are you going to be able to move through the ranks in Law to get an equity position being a career changer rather than having gone straight into the field or are you going to be stuck at a certain point with the career as others will have a greater experience? Tbf not my industry but something to consider. Also worth considering why you feel you’ll be fulfilled in the Law field? Is it purely for financial reasons, if so are you really certain of getting into a position in Law that pays well - lots of the fields within that industry don’t make mega bucks, some do but what will give you the edge in a world where presumably there are a LOT of applicants and not too many jobs.

Thanks for the reply, missed this some how.

Agreed re: the job, tbh I've felt this way from when I joined years ago but I'd already done one career switch (big 4 audit) so felt I had to stick with it. Just focussed on having a good time outside of work. Moved to an NDPB to escape the bureaucracy and politics of central government but still didn't really love it, it was just easy. Moved back to central government partly for the pay rise but also with some kind of hope I might be able to kick on and take it seriously as a career but I think the job is the issue, I just don't think it's a good fit. I could move to a cushy role once I've done this for a year (carrying my salary over) and go back to cruise control/explore out of work interests (this is what a few of my mates do, probably doubling their salary through side hustles, smart guys who don't pee their money away like I do). But I want to be successful and feel fulfilled.


I did spend last night vaguely looking into consultancy. I could probably move into an experienced hire role but would worry that would mean doing something similar. In my current role I'm essentially an analyst, it's a lot of working with data/stats and I just don't enjoy it. Some people love manipulating large datasets and getting engrossed in stats, not me. There's an element of advisory to it, advising policy customers, managing juniors etc. I like the advisory bit, just not really into the technical/data side, don't mind a bit of it but not where it's the main component of the job. So essentially I'm concerned I'd end up doing similar work to what I do only on the outside and advising government from the outside. Public sector consulting might be a bit less frustrating than my current situation but really I want to move into something commercial. I like the idea of advising businesses. Feel like I could make far more impact and enjoy the strategic thinking/creative thinking element. Feel like there is far more potential to be genuinely problem solving and improving businesses, working with something tangible. My work would have some purpose. I also like the idea of becoming an expert in a particular industry. In government it's mostly about box ticking to deliver a minister's policy where for the most part they're ideological rather than policies that make sense economically or otherwise. It all just seems futile to me and I just don't fit in.

Essentially I've picked the wrong career and industry. The only public sector job I've loved was when I worked in intelligence but that was a different skillset and sadly had to move on rotation after a year, more about taking in lots of information from different sources to reach a conclusion and presenting your advice. It was lots of reading and writing, very little technical stuff with spreadsheets and coding. Also loved the expert aspect, getting engrossed in a subject area (countries of interest) and then advising people based on it.

TBH using consultancy gig to fund career change aspirations into law probably isn't worthwhile. Even if I had a law degree, I'd have to do the LPC, so always going to have at least a year of zero earnings. I could do the GDL (conversion course) part time in my current role but would take 2 years and law firms recruit two years in advance. Would potentially mean a year less of zero earnings but also taking a risk self-funding the GDL when there is no guarantee of a job at the end. Hence I prefer the idea of securing a training contract and getting the GDL and LPC funded (cost about £12k a piece), plus the sorts of firms I'm looking at give you a bit of money to live on (£6-£10k per annum depending on firm).

With the above in mind there is no disadvantage in going in as a career changer, as I'll have the same experience as everyone else I start with, albeit I'll be older. My previous experience will count for nothing in terms of where I start on the ladder but could help with how quickly I rise once qualified. That doesn't worry me too much though tbh. I wouldn't need to make partner to earn good money, though being a career changer wouldn't hold me back on that front, and would have all sorts of options, e.g. move into industry, set up my own practice, move abroad, move to a regional firm etc. I'd have to work hard but I don't mind that. I like grafting.


Re: why law would fulfil me...that's a good question but one I have pondered for years. What it boils down to is I love problem solving but also love working with words. I'm good with numbers but am just as good with words (or have the potential to be) and enjoy it much more than staring at spreadsheets/working with large datasets. I've enjoyed drafting contracts etc. in the past. I love the idea of being an expert and advising businesses. I like the intellectual challenge, understanding the law and being able to apply it to problems. It also represents a fresh start, I can take it where I want to. There are so many sectors and specialisms, so many options for the future. Can do the job anywhere, not confined to other public sector jobs. I really want to be working in a commercial environment. But also you aren't doing work for the sake of it, people come to you with their issue and you solve it. People value your advice, hence they pay you for it. There's a clear career path. It gives me something to offer commercially and something I might be able to monetise myself at some point in another arena. Money used to be a part of it and to be honest I wouldn't do it if I wasn't going to earn good money but it isn't the only reason, otherwise I could go into finance.

I always planned to go into law but a serious accident in the middle of my A-levels threw me off and for some reason I decided economics was the way forward. I just decided I wanted to head to London and make money and economics was the way to do that, hadn't even studied it before. I've regretted not doing law ever since. I didn't enjoy my degree so god knows why I thought it was a good idea to become a professional economist I was studying English, History and Maths, missed my Maths exams and was in hospital for much of the next year so just finished off English and History and then fast tracked my Maths A-level in one year. Spending all that time doing Maths convinced me that something more numbers based was the way forward, hence economics, when actually I only did Maths because I was good at it. I loved History and English. 


In terms of the type of law I'm interested in, it's the one that pays well but not solely because it pays well ha. It is very competitive. The fact I'm a career changer is essentially what sets me apart, while competing with grads. Some firms won't be that interested in me, the sorts of career changers they're after are the sort who switch from banking and finance but there are plenty of other decent firms that should be interested. I've been to about 20 events at law firms/networking events over the past 2/3years and done my research but it is hard work even getting a foot in the door because it is so competitive. You really need to be on it in terms of what the firm specialises in, fit your experiences to those specialisms,  be able to demonstrate a genuine interest in that area of law etc. I applied to about 6 this year with mixed success, did get through the sift with most of my applications and when I did I also got through the next stage, which is usually the intelligence tests. I got rejected at video interview stage for quite a few (essentially you get a question, 30 seconds to prepare and 90 seconds to answer), some were my own fault as I didn't prepare enough (someone shared the questions with me but had lied, my own fault for cutting corners ). Got through one of the video interviews, then passed the tests but only made the reserve list for the final interview. That was a bit frustrating as it was the firm I felt I was the best fit for but it was a smaller city law firm (only recruited 6 trainees). It didn't help having everything going on at home while doing the applications but I also could've put more into it, particularly preparing for the video interviews. Though wasn't helped by the fact I generally did them at midnight when everyone was in bed and I wouldn't be disturbed, not exactly ideal for sharp thinking ha. Another thing that holds me back is I have a fear of failure that can prevent me fully committing to things at times. It's annoying. The apps took so much time though, each stage is intense and takes a lot of commitment so I was pretty gutted to get close and not get there but reading back what I have written above it seems like I need to commit to it again. 

alt80

Think you know what you need to do! Looks from an outside perspective anything but Law isn’t going to work and you’ve had fleeting thoughts of ‘could stay where I am’ / ‘start my own business’ etc etc but keep coming back to Law as the right option for you. Tbh from what you’ve written I don’t think you’ll be satisfied with anything else and if you don’t go for it you’ll always regret it possibly won’t help the spending either once out of debt. I couldn’t hold a job down (knew this and no long term plans to work as a salaried employee even when at uni) got my professional qual out of the way, worked for a few other places but set up in business ASAP, probably too early by most people’s reckoning and had to learn PDQ. Your situation sounds similar in a way ie you know what you need to do but you’ve spent a long time denying it and coasting career wise rather than making it happen. It is what it is and you can’t change the past but you’ve got a brilliant opportunity to get what you want now no debt hanging over you. Whole life ahead.

Two things to think about:
- how are you going to manage having no income for 2 years?
- (this may be stupid as not my field) why not do the GDL and be ready to apply? Surely Law firms would rather just have to put you through the professional qual rather than the degree conversion too? I imagine much easier to get the job having shown a commitment to put yourself through the degree conversion.

I’ve employed a couple of career changers (similar in a way they had completed a Masters and then did the professional qual whilst working in my business) - worked out really well so do know it’s not necessarily a negative thing, one moved on a different part of the country (family reasons not business) and one has progressed really well in my business.