Countdown from £28k...

warby68

Just popping on to say how brilliantly you've done.
I thought I remembered you starting out, when you were struggling to rein in the social stuff. I think you blew your month's budget in a single week at the start of your diary.
You've really pressed the reset button and got yourself in a good place to start moving forward again.
Hope you stay around to show what happens when you come out the other side of a big debt clearance journey

ryanm8655

warby68 said:

Just popping on to say how brilliantly you've done.
I thought I remembered you starting out, when you were struggling to rein in the social stuff. I think you blew your month's budget in a single week at the start of your diary.
You've really pressed the reset button and got yourself in a good place to start moving forward again.
Hope you stay around to show what happens when you come out the other side of a big debt clearance journey

Thanks for checking in. Yes, think I set myself a £200 entertainment budget initially ha and then blew it in one weekend...

Lockdown has definitely helped, so I have been lucky in a way. Though I was still making reasonably good progress before that but I think it’s easily shaved a good 4 months off. Likewise the new job and pay rise will have shaved a further month or so off (even though it has come late in the day).

Will certainly stick around, though I’ve still got a bit longer to go ha.

More important than the rate of debt clearance and becoming debt free is the shift in mentality. Yes, I still like nice things and want to enjoy life but I think long and hard about every unnecessary purchase now. I think a lot more about the opportunity cost and have absolutely no desire to use credit to fund my lifestyle ever again.

Once this is over I’ll use my BA Amex card for the avios (and clear in full each month) and may have a zero fx fees card for use abroad (that I pay in full when I get back using the savings I have for holidays).

I’m not perfect, I don’t currently put my money into separate pots etc. But it’s something I will do in the future. At the moment I don’t really need to, as I’m living with family. But once the debt is gone I will start to set up pots for holidays etc. 

enthusiasticsaver

Have you considered somewhere further out in the Greater London area like East Croydon or Purley, Whyteleafe?  They all are commutable into the city but you might stand a chance of buying there rather than renting? My nephew who works in the city has just bought a new 1 bed flat in Purley under the Help to Buy scheme. 

You are so nearly clear of this debt and put yourself in a much better position. 

alt80

@ryanm8655 the 95% deals will undoubtedly be for FTB. My point about investment is if you’re target tenants are professional tenants who are FTBs-in-waiting usually whilst they’re saving deposit, depending on the restrictions they’re time renting could be less time than it currently is.

London market is something else mate. I really don’t understand the draw but each to his own.

Have you found your mindset has completely changed or you’re just putting up with the punishment? 

enthusiasticsaver

ryanm8655 said:

More important than the rate of debt clearance and becoming debt free is the shift in mentality. Yes, I still like nice things and want to enjoy life but I think long and hard about every unnecessary purchase now. I think a lot more about the opportunity cost and have absolutely no desire to use credit to fund my lifestyle ever again.

This is an incredible shift in mentality as I remember the early days of you coming on here and as you say you could easily blow hundreds in one night.  I know a large proportion of your income will go to living costs as London is expensive but having no debt means more disposable income to either save towards your own place or having a good time with your mates.  Are you getting rid of the car? 

rugbymadfamily

Hi @ryanm8655 popped by recently (you made some really good comments on some other diaries I was perusing so thought I would take a look at yours). The progress you have made is incredible, not just paying down the debt but the shift in attitude towards spending. Really good to read and so impressive! Best of luck with the future house plans (I recently bought in a London suburb....its so expensive!), sounds like you are so much better set up for whatever comes your way in the future! Tough going living with family, but the pay off for the position you are in now will be well worth it when you look back on it.

ryanm8655

enthusiasticsaver said:

Have you considered somewhere further out in the Greater London area like East Croydon or Purley, Whyteleafe?  They all are commutable into the city but you might stand a chance of buying there rather than renting? My nephew who works in the city has just bought a new 1 bed flat in Purley under the Help to Buy scheme. 

You are so nearly clear of this debt and put yourself in a much better position. 

I have briefly but to be honest, since I don't have the deposit I haven't thought about it too much. Once I'm a decent way towards a deposit I'll start to look more seriously and consider what is realistic. Buying, I'm certainly open to a little further out if the commute is still straightforward enough. Prices are still ridiculous but more affordable than zone 1/2/3, especially if you move somewhere a little less trendy. I don't know Purley but will check it out when I next feel like procrastinating ha. I don't mind Croydon, did have a bit of a browse around there and it was a lot more affordable. Doesn't have the best rep but had a random night out there with my uncle's football team (one of them owns a restaurant there) and was pleasantly surprised, starting to get a bit trendier with nice bars and restaurants appearing, plus the train back to central was pretty quick.

Renting, I have found you don't really save that much by moving further out so I see more value in living centrally but buying I would be far more open to further out.

alt80 said:

@ryanm8655 the 95% deals will undoubtedly be for FTB. My point about investment is if you’re target tenants are professional tenants who are FTBs-in-waiting usually whilst they’re saving deposit, depending on the restrictions they’re time renting could be less time than it currently is.

London market is something else mate. I really don’t understand the draw but each to his own.

Have you found your mindset has completely changed or you’re just putting up with the punishment? 

Ahh, I see what you mean. That makes sense. Will be a long while before I can afford any BTLs but I've been thinking cheap houses in high yield areas where tenants are likely to be social tenants or unable to afford to buy. But I need to get a place for myself before giving it serious thought ha!

Yeah, completely understand not getting the draw. I don't particularly like where I'm from and London is an escape from that for me. Now it's just that I've built a life there in terms of friends etc. There are things I don't like (feeling poor relatively, the high crime (you have to have your wits about you when drunk if you don't want a watch to be stolen or your wallet/phone), the ridiculous property prices and paying the same for a 2 bed flat as you would for a huge detached home in a nice area in other parts of the country) but on the whole I love it.

I have found my mindet has changed, it doesn't feel like a punishment at all. It did initially and I do wish it was over so that I could crack on in terms of getting my own place and independence but living within my means doesn't feel like a punishment. I've never not been in debt, ever since uni, so I'm quite excited about all of my money being mine on payday for the first time. I have a crap car (15 year old A4 Avant diesel in beige...)  but I went without one for years so it doesn't really bother me (always used to lease new cars but then went without one for a good 4 years). My priorities have completely changed. When I started out on this journey I thought I'll reward myself at the end by getting a nice watch on finance (obviously I kept this to myself) as the payments would be nothing compared to what I've been forking out on interest every month for years...now I'm there I'd feel a bit of a n0b buying a watch that is almost a months salary when I don't even own a house. In my mind I now think "I'll get the watch when I have a flat" but I genuinely think I'll probably then put it off until I've got a BTL or something. It's interesting how things have changed...

enthusiasticsaver said:

This is an incredible shift in mentality as I remember the early days of you coming on here and as you say you could easily blow hundreds in one night.  I know a large proportion of your income will go to living costs as London is expensive but having no debt means more disposable income to either save towards your own place or having a good time with your mates.  Are you getting rid of the car? 

Yeah, it's quite strange how things have changed...I'll never be a tightwad with my money and will always want to enjoy myself but I wouldn't put myself in debt to do so anymore...I do think the nights out will always be my weakness but as long as it's within my means...though I am starting to go off of the drinking so who knows, maybe that'll change too. Work has helped, as I feel the need to be more on the ball, where as my old job I was bored and I could get away with being hungover after going out on a school night. No way I could do that here, it's too fast paced. The responsibility of having a (small) team also helps with that.

I'll sell the car once I've moved (it'll be handy for moving all my stuff) and then stick that straight into my LISA I expect (should get at least £1500). Tempted to keep it but it's just unnecessary in London and I can save the £50 on insurance and breakdown, plus the maintenance and fuel as well...

rugbymadfamily said:

Hi @ryanm8655 popped by recently (you made some really good comments on some other diaries I was perusing so thought I would take a look at yours). The progress you have made is incredible, not just paying down the debt but the shift in attitude towards spending. Really good to read and so impressive! Best of luck with the future house plans (I recently bought in a London suburb....its so expensive!), sounds like you are so much better set up for whatever comes your way in the future! Tough going living with family, but the pay off for the position you are in now will be well worth it when you look back on it.

Thanks for checking in and congrats on the house purchase. Which suburb, if you don't mind me asking?

Yes, absolutely re: looking back! Very grateful to them for helping me out, as much as I moan. They're not my parents, so not like they had to help me. Looking forward to having my independence but also not feeling like a burden again. Will always be so grateful though! the sacrifice will also help to ensure that I don't end up back in the same boat again...I used to long for a quick fix, like a job where I got hefty bonuses that could wipeout the debt but in hindsight I am glad to have had this experience as it's taught me a lot and the change in mindest in relation to money is invaluable. Again, I'm not some MSE exemplar, who is going to managing my budget to the penny and living ultra frugally and clearing my mortgage by 40 (living in the present and enjoying my life will always be important to me). But I do think I have developed a more balanced and healthy relationship with money and will have given myself a fresh start. I feel far less compelled and under pressure to chase more money to solve my problems, although I still have ambitions...before it was just a way to afford my lifestyle and escape the debt without having to make changes/sacrifices.


Without debt I have so many exciting options open to me...I can afford a masters if I want to, consider a career change and not worry too much about taking a paycut to do so, I can focus on getting a property, I can have nice holidays guilt free, I won't have to wince and think about which card has enough money on when looking at the bill on dates On a related note, I actually had two cards get declined on a date once, they just jumped in and paid at that stage I did have the cash in my current account but it was still quite embarrassing to have them know I had maxed two credit cards (I had another 5/6 maxed out at home), though I did get a second and third date some how...

alt80

@ryanm8655

Low value / high yield will make you the most but I can’t stress enough they are hard work and you WILL get stung if you’re wanting a ‘hands off’ investment. As you know I invest in these type of properties both single let and HMO, I tend to buy them as projects on a bridge and remo once refurbished - portfolio as a whole is worth just under £1.2M at a smidge under 75%LTV, the only money I ever put in was £20k of retained profits from my ltd co loaned to the BTL ltd co. Also flipped quite a few similar properties too. The question I always ask myself is ‘would I live here?’ OK I wouldn’t want to live there but if I had to is it appointed well enough and somewhere someone can call home. Tenants will generally not care for the properties as well as you/ I would but I find if you provide something a little nicer than most at that budget, properly reference the tenant and take a bit of time to talk to them you’ll know which tenant(s) will look after the place the best. You won’t have trouble finding a tenant but finding a decent one can be difficult when dealing with the lower end of the market.

I spend most of my late childhood / teens in the absolute middle of nowhere 15 miles each way to school. Wife has some romantic notion it’d be amazing - it wasn’t lol. Stayed in my uni city (Nottingham) at the time had a very vibrant live music scene but gang / gun crime was rife in parts hence the Shottingham moniker. Some of the small venues have shut now - real loss imo some of the areas have improved, some are just as bad as they ever have been like any city but can live in the best areas in a nice house for relatively little when compared to London etc. I get the wanting to get away from where you grew up it’s a massive contrast to maybe seeing a tractor on the road to school and biggest thing happening was one of the drunk farmers rolling his truck into a ditch.

So you’re the rep/ family man/ middle manager (sorry just the image A4 conjures up in my head haha)... Same re having never not been in debt but really hope I can get to your place mindset wise. Sure you probably know what my opinion will be on the watch - you deserve it but I admire the discipline you’ve got. When did your mindset start to change?

ryanm8655

alt80 said:

@ryanm8655

Low value / high yield will make you the most but I can’t stress enough they are hard work and you WILL get stung if you’re wanting a ‘hands off’ investment. As you know I invest in these type of properties both single let and HMO, I tend to buy them as projects on a bridge and remo once refurbished - portfolio as a whole is worth just under £1.2M at a smidge under 75%LTV, the only money I ever put in was £20k of retained profits from my ltd co loaned to the BTL ltd co. Also flipped quite a few similar properties too. The question I always ask myself is ‘would I live here?’ OK I wouldn’t want to live there but if I had to is it appointed well enough and somewhere someone can call home. Tenants will generally not care for the properties as well as you/ I would but I find if you provide something a little nicer than most at that budget, properly reference the tenant and take a bit of time to talk to them you’ll know which tenant(s) will look after the place the best. You won’t have trouble finding a tenant but finding a decent one can be difficult when dealing with the lower end of the market.

I spend most of my late childhood / teens in the absolute middle of nowhere 15 miles each way to school. Wife has some romantic notion it’d be amazing - it wasn’t lol. Stayed in my uni city (Nottingham) at the time had a very vibrant live music scene but gang / gun crime was rife in parts hence the Shottingham moniker. Some of the small venues have shut now - real loss imo some of the areas have improved, some are just as bad as they ever have been like any city but can live in the best areas in a nice house for relatively little when compared to London etc. I get the wanting to get away from where you grew up it’s a massive contrast to maybe seeing a tractor on the road to school and biggest thing happening was one of the drunk farmers rolling his truck into a ditch.

So you’re the rep/ family man/ middle manager (sorry just the image A4 conjures up in my head haha)... Same re having never not been in debt but really hope I can get to your place mindset wise. Sure you probably know what my opinion will be on the watch - you deserve it but I admire the discipline you’ve got. When did your mindset start to change?

That makes sense on the tenant front. Really useful insights. 

Haha, I actually used to rave a tractor every morning cycling the 6 or so miles to sixth form. I didn’t mind growing up around here, just used to disappear into the forest, cycle to the beach or whatever. It’s more the negativity of my family life that associate with the place and the fact my world view has become so far removed from those here. In London there’s an abundance of people who are on the same wavelength/level. Even people I’ve reconnected with from school, who I wasn’t particularly friendly with, I now get on with really well and have close friendships with. I just find people a bit deeper/more interesting than back home. Life is faster paced etc.

Haha. None of those thankfully. But have always fancied an RS4/RS6 Avant. Prefer Audi estates to the saloons.

Re: mindset it’s hard to say. But probably once I was making notable progress. Getting all of my debt into 0% was a big milestone for me. I did have in mind buying a watch once I was at £20k and didn’t, obviously. So the mindset had changed by then. But I don’t think it’s a binary thing. It’s a sliding scale. Gradually the purchases you think about in terms of the opportunity cost get smaller and smaller. I think I’m quite balanced though, I do still buy things, I just buy within my fun budget. If I was stricter I could clear the debt even more quickly but it would be marginal. Another tip, if there’s something you want try and hold out until the end of the month. I have a budget that I spend on whatever (whether that’s coffee, eating out, clothes, other luxuries), if I’ve got something I want to buy out of that then I’ll tend to use it as a motivator to get to the last week of the month with plenty left to buy it.

alt80

@ryanm8655 Thanks. Appreciate it’ll be a while for you but if you’re serious about the BTLs feel free to send me a msg anytime.

I’m still in touch with a few people from school, some moved away, some still there.

Not a massive Audi fan tbh but love the RS6 Avant and tbh prefer the estates too.

Think I need a miracle with the mindset haha.

Your dating experience with the cards declining brought back some memories haha. Not had a card declined but took my wife out to this really nice restaurant (£300+ for a meal), this was just before I remortgaged the BTLs, cards maxed and knew I was going to ‘pay at pump’ for petrol earlier that day because you can take £99 petrol but it doesn’t debit the account for a day or two so I could still take wife to the restaurant that evening. Just the fact I know that is embarrassing to admit tbh one of my junior staff had burned through his overdraft and I suggested doing that of course he was like ‘how would you know’...’keep a very close eye on the pennies and the pounds will look after themselves’ worked well enough fml.

Often used to play the fuel light game with my RRS too, actually ran out once on the M1 as well lol never forget my mate bringing petrol (didn’t dare tell wife haha) and saying ‘you’ve made us look like a right pair of p*keys’ though he did have the foresight to bring two cans (a gallon of petrol don’t get you far in a V8). Looking back at that I’ve actually come a long way and very nearly did f**k my credit record back then.