Tradesman has changed payment terms between quote and invoice

unforeseen

Jackmydad wrote: »

To be honest if a business hasn't got the means to stand payment for an invoice being late on occasion, then they have bigger problems.

OTOH, with all due respect to the OP, I wouldn't want to be that reliant on my next wages to pay unexpected bills. Life has a way of coming and kicking you when you're down, and while it's not always easy to achieve, some sort of financial buffer is a must IMHO.

BUT, why use your buffer to pay this bill early when there is no need?

Jackmydad

unforeseen wrote: »

BUT, why use your buffer to pay this bill early when there is no need?

Having the money to pay, and paying before it's due are two different things.
The OP said it would leave them without any money if they paid the bill earlier than expected.

snowcat75

Jackmydad wrote: »

To be honest if a business hasn't got the means to stand payment for an invoice being late on occasion, then they have bigger problems.

OTOH, with all due respect to the OP, I wouldn't want to be that reliant on my next wages to pay unexpected bills. Life has a way of coming and kicking you when you're down, and while it's not always easy to achieve, some sort of financial buffer is a must IMHO.

Reminds of someone I once employed, knew him from school so should of known better.

Decent amount of work 20+ weeks to which he priced, ALL materials provided by me right down to every screw fixing etc, agreed stage payment, even gave him a CC encase he needed something unexpected.

First week turns up gets to Wednesday and asks if he can have weekly payments instead (should have binned him then) I reluctant agree but will be making sure he's on track for the stages.


Gets to Friday (first week) could I also go to the post office and draw £300 cash to pay his labourer:( I refused.

By week 4 he was so far out on the stage payments I was £2k over where I should be I stopped paying him weekly. Tuesday of the following week he was texting me asking why his money hadn't been transferred for the following week.:mad:


When I sat down with him went through the quote where he should be, he replied saying it was all pro rata some jobs take longer some slower, Then sent a revised quote giving him a shed more time and working extras in to make up for the "shortfall" in money at no point did working after 3.30pm to make some time up occur to him....


He seemed to forget pulling the wool over someone's eyes who can do the job doesn't work.


Needless to say it never got any better until I finally had enough told him where he could finish to and he'd be working the next month for no pay as he'd already had it all.

Never finished, and possibly the only time Iv ended up out of pocket by someone's complete inability to manage finances and time. We now longer talk;)

Jackmydad

snowcat75 wrote: »

Reminds of someone I once employed, knew him from school so should of known better.

Decent amount of work 20+ weeks to which he priced, ALL materials provided by me right down to every screw fixing etc, agreed stage payment, even gave him a CC encase he needed something unexpected.

First week turns up gets to Wednesday and asks if he can have weekly payments instead (should have binned him then) I reluctant agree but will be making sure he's on track for the stages.


Gets to Friday (first week) could I also go to the post office and draw £300 cash to pay his labourer:( I refused.

By week 4 he was so far out on the stage payments I was £2k over where I should be I stopped paying him weekly. Tuesday of the following week he was texting me asking why his money hadn't been transferred for the following week.:mad:


When I sat down with him went through the quote where he should be, he replied saying it was all pro rata some jobs take longer some slower, Then sent a revised quote giving him a shed more time and working extras in to make up for the "shortfall" in money at no point did working after 3.30pm to make some time up occur to him....


He seemed to forget pulling the wool over someone's eyes who can do the job doesn't work.


Needless to say it never got any better until I finally had enough told him where he could finish to and he'd be working the next month for no pay as he'd already had it all.

Never finished, and possibly the only time Iv ended up out of pocket by someone's complete inability to manage finances and time. We now longer talk;)

Known one or two like that. I got one similar, "I'm desperate I'll do anything" a job with a builder on the job where I was working. I did say to the builder I didn't know what his work was like. . .
Luckily the builder was a sensible guy I knew, and still know socially, so we didn't fall out when he sacked this bloke. I don't think it was a case so much of "What his work was like" as "What work?"

I'm like most self employed people. I have always had some sort of "float" even when times have been thin.

snowcat75

Jackmydad wrote: »

Known one or two like that. I got one similar, "I'm desperate I'll do anything" a job with a builder on the job where I was working. I did say to the builder I didn't know what his work was like. . .
Luckily the builder was a sensible guy I knew, and still know socially, so we didn't fall out when he sacked this bloke. I don't think it was a case so much of "What his work was like" as "What work?"

I'm like most self employed people. I have always had some sort of "float" even when times have been thin.

Id like to say most of us in self employment have some backup cash wise, But it seams far more normal to yo yo from earning decently for a few weeks and then doing little for a few more till the cash runs out and then its back to being desperate again....

I forgot to add my favourite part with this guy..... Just before I got rid he had a £100k pay-out from his divorce when they sold the house, he was walking around like a dog with 2 dicks, The M reg transit was replaced by a sparkly new one within a week..... and id only imagine on what else he was spending it on.


About 3 months after I get a phone call, angry about 9ish on a Sunday demanding the £3k I owe him for the work he never finished! I said it wasn't a problem if he wanted to come and finish the job and it was all satisfactory Id BACS the money over the same evening.... The reply was he couldn't wait and needed the money now and as he'd been overdrawn by £3k for the last 2 months which was my fault I needed to pay his bank charges:rotfl:...… When asked how he'd gone overdrawn with the 100k in the bank he said it was none of my business but he'd invested the lot in short term Gold shares and as the market had dropped he didn't want to sell them !!!!!!:eek:...… Then his PAYG phone ran out of credit which was the perfect irony. He never could be bothered to finish and collect his money..... I have a feeling there's not a whole lot left of that £100k;)…..

phill99

Jackmydad wrote: »

To be honest if a business hasn't got the means to stand payment for an invoice being late on occasion, then they have bigger problems.

That's unfair. You seem to think that all businessmen that work in peoples homes are well established businesses with mega cash flow. Well as a tradesman, I can guarantee that they aint!!


Self employment is a nightmare and you only need to have a week or two when things are a bit slow and any cash reserves soon disappear.


So don't be judgemental.

ceredigion

It would be interesting to know in the OP's case. How long after the completion of works it took for the invoice to turn up. I know it is to a certain degree irrelevant as the terms of business were set out on the quote but if there has all ready been a 28 day gap and the OP is trying to get a further 28 days it seems rather unfair not to pay the man as you knew it was coming.

In my world I would discuss payment terms on a contract of plus 10K. Every thing else is on presentation of invoice after completion , but it might be 3 months until I get round to invoicing.

Jackmydad

phill99 wrote: »

That's unfair. You seem to think that all businessmen that work in peoples homes are well established businesses with mega cash flow. Well as a tradesman, I can guarantee that they aint!!


Self employment is a nightmare and you only need to have a week or two when things are a bit slow and any cash reserves soon disappear.


So don't be judgemental.

I've been a self employed "one man band" for 35 years.
Doing different things over the years.
I've always managed to keep some sort of float in hand, even when it's been tight.
Being self employed isn't easy, but we always reckoned on the quiet periods being there.
If it had been that "hand to mouth" I'd have packed it in and got employment.

I'm not being "judgemental" as you put it.
I'm stating a fact.
A business must have some sort of financial buffer to weather the tough times, otherwise, as I said, they have problems.

snowcat75

ceredigion wrote: »

It would be interesting to know in the OP's case. How long after the completion of works it took for the invoice to turn up. I know it is to a certain degree irrelevant as the terms of business were set out on the quote but if there has all ready been a 28 day gap and the OP is trying to get a further 28 days it seems rather unfair not to pay the man as you knew it was coming.

In my world I would discuss payment terms on a contract of plus 10K. Every thing else is on presentation of invoice after completion , but it might be 3 months until I get round to invoicing.

This though is the issue I see with many small traders, Will moan about being potless, but not getting invoicing and bookkeeping done on time....


I have a fitter I use excellent at his job and he's now employing 3, however Iv know a few have stopped using him because his invoicing is so sloppy... Iv had work done by him in July and Im now chasing the invoice because my year ends in September others haven't received invoices for a year.... Then he wonders why he's in financial troubles.


I pay 28 days always if that's the terms, Its not my issue if someone cant get the invoices out on time.... Business is harsh that's the reality.

The point being made is if any business runs hand to mouth there is only one way it will end irrespective of size....

ceredigion

snowcat75 wrote: »

This though is the issue I see with many small traders, Will moan about being potless, but not getting invoicing and bookkeeping done on time....


I have a fitter I use excellent at his job and he's now employing 3, however Iv know a few have stopped using him because his invoicing is so sloppy... Iv had work done by him in July and Im now chasing the invoice because my year ends in September others haven't received invoices for a year.... Then he wonders why he's in financial troubles.


I pay 28 days always if that's the terms, Its not my issue if someone cant get the invoices out on time.... Business is harsh that's the reality.

The point being made is if any business runs hand to mouth there is only one way it will end irrespective of size....

I completely agree with your comments. An explanation as to why on occasions it can be so long invoicing. I generally intend to do them at the end of the following month, this allows time for invoices to me to land on my desk and time for my clients to live with the finished product to insure there is no snagging. On occasion because life gets in the way and I miss that end of month it will get rolled over to the next, So in extreme circumstances it can end up at 3 months.