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VW Group keyless security?
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Frozen_up_north
Posts: 2,808 Forumite
in Motoring
Currently there are offers on Seat cars, however they all seem to have the irritation of insecure keyless entry.
The dealership says they have never heard of one being stolen by tricking the keyless system and claim there isn’t a theft problem with the Seat keyless cars.
Checking the ADAC list of susceptible cars, all but 3 (from Jaguar Land Rover) and some Merc and BMW cars are listed as vulnerable, with entry and engine starting in just a few seconds. The list was updated in January 2019.
The keyless “key” on Seat cars doesn’t have a motion sensor or an off switch. Both these measures are recommended by Thatcham to reduce the risk.
Clearly manufacturers have a “head in the sand” approach to security.
Has anyone had meaningful dialogue with the manufacturers, as they don’t appear to be doing anything to fix the problem.
The dealership says they have never heard of one being stolen by tricking the keyless system and claim there isn’t a theft problem with the Seat keyless cars.
Checking the ADAC list of susceptible cars, all but 3 (from Jaguar Land Rover) and some Merc and BMW cars are listed as vulnerable, with entry and engine starting in just a few seconds. The list was updated in January 2019.
The keyless “key” on Seat cars doesn’t have a motion sensor or an off switch. Both these measures are recommended by Thatcham to reduce the risk.
Clearly manufacturers have a “head in the sand” approach to security.
Has anyone had meaningful dialogue with the manufacturers, as they don’t appear to be doing anything to fix the problem.
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Comments
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Our local Police and Crime Commissioner has been campaigning over this and held a summit last year to discuss the matter.
https://www.westmidlands-pcc.gov.uk/pcc-calls-on-voice-of-the-uk-motor-industry-to-tackle-vehicle-theft-open-letter-from-david-jamieson/
And there is a list in this recent article re the makes of vehicle and the numbers stolen. Yes, it only relates to the West Midlands but it should reflect other areas as well.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/20-cars-most-likely-stolen-167857810 -
Frozen_up_north wrote: »Currently there are offers on Seat cars, however they all seem to have the irritation of insecure keyless entry.
The dealership says they have never heard of one being stolen by tricking the keyless system and claim there isn’t a theft problem with the Seat keyless cars.
Checking the ADAC list of susceptible cars, all but 3 (from Jaguar Land Rover) and some Merc and BMW cars are listed as vulnerable, with entry and engine starting in just a few seconds. The list was updated in January 2019.
The keyless “key” on Seat cars doesn’t have a motion sensor or an off switch. Both these measures are recommended by Thatcham to reduce the risk.
Clearly manufacturers have a “head in the sand” approach to security.
Has anyone had meaningful dialogue with the manufacturers, as they don’t appear to be doing anything to fix the problem.
What problem?
Do you put a key in the door and turn it to enter the car?
I thought not...so on that logic most modern cars are keyless entry, some cars are push button start and the key can be left in a bag or pocket (is that the type you mean?)
Sadly all the folk I know who have had there car stolen have the type that you put the key in the ignition to start it.
You can buy additional deterents to hinder the car being taken but none are 100% at the end of the day if they want it they can steal it.0 -
Unfortunately virtually all modern cars are the type where thieves use relay boxes, which allows them to steal cars in seconds from driveways and the roadside. The most effective deterrent is a clumsy steering wheel lock at around £120.What problem?
Do you put a key in the door and turn it to enter the car?
I thought not...so on that logic most modern cars are keyless entry, some cars are push button start and the key can be left in a bag or pocket (is that the type you mean?)
Sadly all the folk I know who have had there car stolen have the type that you put the key in the ignition to start it.
Police and Crime Commissioners, the media, The Consumers Association, Thatcham and others have raised the problem with the motor industry. Sadly, to little effect.
We can keep our money in our pockets in the hope something will change, but don’t hold your breath.0 -
Frozen_up_north wrote: »Unfortunately virtually all modern cars are the type where thieves use relay boxes, which allows them to steal cars in seconds from driveways and the roadside. The most effective deterrent is a clumsy steering wheel lock at around £120.
Police and Crime Commissioners, the media, The Consumers Association, Thatcham and others have raised the problem with the motor industry. Sadly, to little effect.
We can keep our money in our pockets in the hope something will change, but don’t hold your breath.
So why aren't more cars stolen?
There needs to be a market for stolen cars, the method of stealing has just progressed with technology.0 -
Protecting the key with some sort of shielded wallet (or even tin can) will prevent the type of theft whereby they steal the car from your front drive.0
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So why aren't more cars stolen?
There are only a few thieves, and they don't work overtime, but they are doing their best, we have lost 30 fiestas here since July.
Probably as you say there is a limit to how many can be processed.Protecting the key with some sort of shielded wallet (or even tin can) will prevent the type of theft whereby they steal the car from your front drive.
Only if the thefts really are done with the legendary "relay device", that no-one has actually seen. Fiestas certainly are stolen by putting the drivers window out, and reaching in with a cord to the OBD port. (There is a dead spot in the alarm coverage), they read the VIN of the car, and look up the necessary codes to unlock it and start the engine using their dodgy software.
Disklok, and drive security post sales are well up round here I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....
(except air quality and Medical Science
)0 -
There are only a few thieves, and they don't work overtime, but they are doing their best, we have lost 30 fiestas here since July. Probably as you say there is a limit to how many can be processed.
Yes and the insurance companies have some responsibility as a result of selling write-off vehicles to all and sundry thus creating a market for the parts stripped from stolen vehicles.Only if the thefts really are done with the legendary "relay device", that no-one has actually seen. Fiestas certainly are stolen by putting the drivers window out, and reaching in with a cord to the OBD port. (There is a dead spot in the alarm coverage), they read the VIN of the car, and look up the necessary codes to unlock it and start the engine using their dodgy software.
I agree with most of that, and relay theft isn't as common in percentage terms as is being portrayed in the media. But relay devices have been recovered by the authorities and there is certainly video footage of it happening.Disklok, and drive security post sales are well up round here:D
I should think auto-electricians to relocate OBD ports and those who sell port protection devices are also doing well out of the situation.0 -
Fiestas certainly are stolen by putting the drivers window out, and reaching in with a cord to the OBD port. (There is a dead spot in the alarm coverage), they read the VIN of the car, and look up the necessary codes to unlock it and start the engine using their dodgy software.
Surely to read the VIN of the car you put your glasses on & look at the bottom right hand corner of the windscreen?Tall, dark & handsome. Well two out of three ain't bad.0 -
EssexExile wrote: »Surely to read the VIN of the car you put your glasses on & look at the bottom right hand corner of the windscreen?
Then you'd have to type it in
Any numpty can plug a lead in and press "go" and the notebook will do it by itself.
I see what you are hinting at, armed with the VIN number and a "friend" at the dealers they can provide you with duplicate keys (see Gone in 60 seconds with Nicholas Cage stealing Mercedes). Seems a bit long winded, and you'd need 2 visits. These thieves just pull up at any fiesta where the house lights are off and steal it in under a minute. They've take a couple mid afternoon as well.I want to go back to The Olden Days, when every single thing that I can think of was better.....
(except air quality and Medical Science)0 -
Not true at all. The only ones where this is possible is cars with keyless entry systems.Frozen_up_north wrote: »Unfortunately virtually all modern cars are the type where thieves use relay boxes, which allows them to steal cars in seconds from driveways and the roadside. The most effective deterrent is a clumsy steering wheel lock at around £120.
Police and Crime Commissioners, the media, The Consumers Association, Thatcham and others have raised the problem with the motor industry. Sadly, to little effect.
We can keep our money in our pockets in the hope something will change, but don’t hold your breath.0
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