No deal Brexit or Corbyn government?

Poor_Leno

Imagine if....during the referendum campaign things like "the backstop" and "crashing out" had been so widely hot potatoed as they are now. We'd probably not be in a 52/48 situation that has increasingly seemed to shift to a position where what would have been perfectly reasonable and acceptable in 2016 according to both Farage and Rees-Mogg (that being a Norway style system) has slid all the way to the right to a position where doing everything in one's power to leave with no deal is the (assumed) default position. Or at least that's how its seemed since Bojo took office.

I am in no doubt that the British public have been so poorly misinformed during this whole process - from pre-referendum right up to now with all this 'get brexit done' propoganda. We simply must find a solution to the current political stalemate that honours the result in the first instance, but not with all this public falling out. Parliament needs to compromise on all sides. I don't see how a general election solves our current predicament with the deadlock that we seem to be stuck in, but neither does a 'neverendum' scenario. Basically, I think we're screwed whatever happens next. You can't expect the public to stomach another referendum, not least before the first one has been honoured and I fully support the all-out leavers with that sentiment.

I have no idea who I will vote for at the next general election. One thing for sure, nobody is speaking for sensible centre ground, moderate and democratic politics. The kind of politics we previously were held in high esteem for having. Everything has gone left or right. And Labour's position on Brexit is just laughable when led by a Marxist eurosceptic. No reasonable minded person would trust and then vote for either Corbyn or Bojo from what I see. Nor miss Swinson either. I guess I should hope there's an independent candidate standing in my area with half a clue where we go from here,since none of the main candidates have a sensible resolution.

Anyone thinking voting Brexit Party is a good idea, might want to wait to see the detail of its wider manifesto beyond the single issue they exist for. I find it quite amazing how many labour supporters feel they can stomach voting BP and put things like the NHS at such huge risk. Considering that labour in the past have been such great champions and custodians of the NHS, which I think a lot labour voters like about the party. I just find it quite astonishing that someone could so easily vote BP without thinking about the wider consequences of electing that choice when in the past its leader has sounded quite keen on selling of/franchising out parts of it. And I'm no tree hugging leftie either, btw

BobQ

Malthusian wrote: »

Daniel Finkelstein argues convincingly in The Times today that the only realistic options for the country are either a no-deal Brexit or a Corbyn government.

So, which would you prefer - Corbyn as Prime Minister or no-deal Brexit?

There are reds under that bed!

I am not a Corbyn supporter but the Tories keep peddling the anti-Corbyn mantra.

There are other reasons for disliking Corbyn but maybe some people need to remember that Corbyn was advocating leaving the EU in the 1980s long before Johnson decided it was the fashionable side to be on for a future PM.

Fran_Klee

BobQ wrote: »

There are reds under that bed!

I am not a Corbyn supporter but the Tories keep peddling the anti-Corbyn mantra.

There are other reasons for disliking Corbyn but maybe some people need to remember that Corbyn was advocating leaving the EU in the 1980s long before Johnson decided it was the fashionable side to be on for a future PM.

It's not "peddling" when Corbyn has done everything possible to be a fence-sitter.
It's also not "peddling" when every single poll shows that Corbyn is less popular as party leader than even Jo Swinson.

What Corbyn might have wanted in the 80's regarding leaving the EU is irrelevant if he's doing nothing active about leaving the EU now while he has the opportunity.

BobQ

Fran_Klee wrote: »

It's not "peddling" when Corbyn has done everything possible to be a fence-sitter.
It's also not "peddling" when every single poll shows that Corbyn is less popular as party leader than even Jo Swinson.

.

Clearly you do not understand what I was suggesting was being pedaled. Whatever people think about Labour policies and Corbyn, any fair minded person would agree that the Tories and their supporting newspapers have attacked Corbyn personally in a very vitriolic way, which Corbyn has not reciprocated. The NASTY PARTY love to play the man and not the ball. I was referring to pedaling 'bile'

It is a measure of how shameful political discourse has become in the UK that a significant minority of people think that blind belief in extreme Brexit is the only respectable position. Any attempt to compromise is characterized as fence sitting and weakness.

Even BoJo is dabbling with compromise although I am sure that even if he gets a deal it will come from selling some of his friends down the river and changing whatever principles he currently has. The only thing he cares about is power.

What Corbyn might have wanted in the 80's regarding leaving the EU is irrelevant if he's doing nothing active about leaving the EU now while he has the opportunity

Not entirely, BoJo made up his mind on Brexit in 2015 by writing a paper arguing remain and another arguing Leave. His choice was as ever what will be best for Boris, no principles involved. Whereas Corbyn never expected to lead his party but was consistently advocating Leave on a personal basis. You may think that a Party leader can just make up policy on the hoof but they cannot

Incidentally I do not like Corbyn or Johnson and cannot imagine voting for either.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

. The NASTY PARTY love to play the man and not the ball. I was referring to pedaling 'bile'

That's politics these days. Unfortunately JC has a track record that cannot be disputed. Shame Tom Watson is internally vilified within the party.

BobQ

Thrugelmir wrote: »

That's politics these days. Unfortunately JC has a track record that cannot be disputed. Shame Tom Watson is internally vilified within the party.

You may have studied Corbyn's record and feel qualified to imply a sinister track record. My recollection has been of someone that was always at odds with the mainstream party ranting about his pet issues. In those years the press mocked him but now he has press and social media vilifying him. BoJo continues the track record of the Tories in making personal attacks on Corbyn (as they did with previous Labour leaders). My impression is that Corbyn focuses on the issues far more and makes relatively few personal comments.

LHW99

Shame Tom Watson is internally vilified within the party.

He didn't entirely show himself in a good light over the !!!!!phile investigations though.

Thrugelmir

BobQ wrote: »

You may have studied Corbyn's record and feel qualified to imply a sinister track record. My recollection has been of someone that was always at odds with the mainstream party ranting about his pet issues. In those years the press mocked him but now he has press and social media vilifying him. BoJo continues the track record of the Tories in making personal attacks on Corbyn (as they did with previous Labour leaders). My impression is that Corbyn focuses on the issues far more and makes relatively few personal comments.

Nothing sinister. Just holds views that aren't majority ones. Nor would help reconcile the country. Simply divide it further.

When the Business Shadow Secretary raises the question as to why Thomas Cook wasn't nationalised. You begin to realise how far off the rails the ooposition is.

triathlon

BobQ wrote: »

You may have studied Corbyn's record and feel qualified to imply a sinister track record. My recollection has been of someone that was always at odds with the mainstream party ranting about his pet issues. In those years the press mocked him but now he has press and social media vilifying him. BoJo continues the track record of the Tories in making personal attacks on Corbyn (as they did with previous Labour leaders). My impression is that Corbyn focuses on the issues far more and makes relatively few personal comments.

Corbyn is a complete joke, his life has been based around this romantic vision of himself as supporting the underdog which are usually nasty bits of work, IRA and West bank nutters. He reminds me of those American IRA supporters who base their beliefs on some romantic Hollywood film they once watched.
I agree this country is screaming for some centre left politics that should have come with Blair, but sadly died with John Smith a few years earlier, in many ways I blame Blair for Corbyn. Boris and the whole political system is broken, sadly Cobyn is not the answer. What the country is screaming for is the average Mr Joe Crow who works everyday and takes care of his /her own family being nurtured and rewarded, I cannot help feel that Corbyn sees UK victims as single non working mothers with several kids or large immigrant families who need bigger houses and aid.

triathlon

LHW99 wrote: »

He didn't entirely show himself in a good light over the !!!!!phile investigations though.

Anyone else notice how smug and annoying he has become since he lost all that weight now that he is high profile for the first time in his life. Good for him, but I cannot help think that by dropping all that weight he thinks he has uncovered a long lost Brad Pitt who was there all the time under all that flab.

Yep, you are right, he stuck the knife in with those high profile innocent politicians who must have been under unbearable strain, totally unforgivable.