Scam phone charge refunds - who has succeeded against providers?

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

I got a scam phone text about a subscription to Footballers Lives for ?4.50/week [sic] from Pulse Digital who are based in the Netherlands. One look at the website confirms it is a scam operation.

I have no contract with them, they have clearly used some planted advert to scavenge my phone number when I was browsing. I contacted Vodafone but after much tutting and sympathy and declaring they knew exactly how these scams were perpetrated they declared the charge was "valid and correct".

This has me seething as I have to jump through hoops to contact Vodafone with two factor authentication, but the industry allows any old joker to plant a charge and will not accept responsibility. As the advice is never to contact unsolicited scammers, and Vodafone make good money out of these scammers, you are caught between a provider who does not take responsibility for extracting my money on behalf of a third party - even though I immediately contacted them before the charge was put through and asked for it to be blocked.

Having researched, you soon realise the whole system is designed to avoid anyone taking any responsibility.

Anyway, I have the bit between my teeth and want to make sure that this is as painful for Vodafone as possible. I am gathering information for a submission to ActionFraud and intend to make it a police matter, not a regulator matter, as the regulation system is not designed to support consumers, for example, the simple fact that I can identify that this is a fraudulent transaction and the response is still that I have to contact the fraudsters (on a premium rate phone line!) to get it refunded. Further, as far as I know, the fraudsters do not have my name and email to go with the phone number, so contacting them would allow them to fabricate a more plausible contact record.

Who has had success against a network provider (specifically interested in Vodafone) in getting charges refunded without involving the fraudulent service provider? Who did you hassle? How did you get past the jobsworths in customer service to someone with authority? I might actually have to put pen to paper and write letters with proof of delivery.

mobilejunkie

I'm sure the police will be falling over backwards for you.

ballyblack

or simply but a self-impose ban on a Premium text services

I requested NO premium text services from my supplier Tesco Mobile, they duly obliged and never have any!!

.

IamNotAllowedToUseMyName

mobilejunkie wrote: »

I'm sure the police will be falling over backwards for you.

I am always amazed at MSE members have no interest in bringing fraudsters to book.

fblives.net is so scammy that they forgot to bother putting any means of subscribing on their site - the only way you can subscribe is if they get you with some fishing advert. Their T&Cs are so far away from anything enforceable you can tell it is designed to make scammed people it is there fault. For example, the T&Cs can be changed without notice and it is the consumer's duty to keep up to date with them even if they do not visit the site! The FAQ has an entry that says "How did I subscribe to the Service" to which the answer is essentially you clicked on something. The real gem is that they are a Dutch company who have as a term that you must be a UK citizen to use the service!

It is not about my £4.50, it is the fact that there are no doubt 1000's of fellow people who are scammed - this is so well known and yet Vodafone by inaction are aiding and abetting criminal activity.

I think the police do take frauds seriously and will not look kindly on Vodafone aiding and abetting obvious criminal action.

mobilejunkie

IanMSpencer wrote: »

I am always amazed at MSE members have no interest in bringing fraudsters to book.

fblives.net is so scammy that they forgot to bother putting any means of subscribing on their site - the only way you can subscribe is if they get you with some fishing advert. Their T&Cs are so far away from anything enforceable you can tell it is designed to make scammed people it is there fault. For example, the T&Cs can be changed without notice and it is the consumer's duty to keep up to date with them even if they do not visit the site! The FAQ has an entry that says "How did I subscribe to the Service" to which the answer is essentially you clicked on something. The real gem is that they are a Dutch company who have as a term that you must be a UK citizen to use the service!

It is not about my £4.50, it is the fact that there are no doubt 1000's of fellow people who are scammed - this is so well known and yet Vodafone by inaction are aiding and abetting criminal activity.

I think the police do take frauds seriously and will not look kindly on Vodafone aiding and abetting obvious criminal action.

How naive. I love the last sentence in particular. Having gone to the police a few years ago about a major fraud, my partner presented them with all the documented evidence and an easy case to pursue. The perpetrator was certain to be ripping off other clients to the tune of thousands with impunity and without their knowledge. Guess what - the police (then - no doubt even worse now) didn't even interview the person. Being a "MSE member" I wouldn't let it lie - so off to the Police Complaints Authority. Lots of sympathetic noises and criticism of the original police non-response. They then did absolutley NOTHING either.

I agree with the injustice - along with a lot of other injustices. However, I prefer to live in the real world and fight the wars I can win, rather than running around like a headless chicken ignoring the fact you won't even get off first base.

Martin50

There is a lot of information in various threads about these scams including from people who have reclaimed money and in some cases are able to share letters/emails that they have used. The gist is that if you approach the business behind the extra charges (lots of reasons that you might feel uncompfortable doing this, but it seems to be the only way) and you are persistent you should be able to get the charges back.


Unlikely that you will get anything from your network provider unless you are talking about a veyr small amount, in which case they might make a goodwill payyment. And unfortunately the regulator for this type of thing seems to have liittle interest in changing the situation

payforitsucks

In the vast majority of cases consumers DO get their money back if they are persistent. If you are dealing with a UK based scammer (Wahoo, SB7Mobile, Bonafide Mobile, JamJar Mobile or any number of the other bottom feeders cynically abusing the system for the purposes of fraud), your best bet is to use the Small Claims procedure to claim from them. Start with a letter before action and make sure you obey the pre-action protocols. Check first though that you can't use the CommsADR ADR scheme. Keep evidence of your attempts to resolve the matter "amicably".

If you find that your scammer is based overseas (Cyprus, Belize, the UAE and Singapore feature prominently), then find the details of the UK based aggregator(API) which handled your payment. You can use the Small Claims procedure to take action against them if they don't refund. Details for some of these are listed below:

Shortcode API Phone
83463 Tap2Bill Ltd 0333 003 0599
87066 Tap2Bill Ltd 0333 003 0599
64055 MGage Ltd 0207 633 5073
60138 Txtnation Ltd 0345 174 0803


Full details of all these companies are on the Companies House website, including the company's registered address to which legal claims should be delivered.


For other numbers try checking the PSA website's Number Checker. If all else fails insist that your network identify the API which handled your payment.

When seeking a refund, remember that, under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013, the burden of proof rests with the service provider and not with you. You don’t have to prove you didn’t subscribe, they have to prove that you did! You will win in the Small Claims court if they are unable to provide this proof. Tell them that you want a full refund of all the charges made to your account. Different companies will respond in different ways to this request. Many of the slightly more reputable companies will admit that they hold no evidence, or at least that they had ‘technical difficulties’ and will proceed to make a refund. The reality is that, because it often takes weeks for consumers to notice these charges on their bills, by paying refunds they avoid complaints. This results in fewer complaints about their ‘service’ and consequently they are able to operate for longer before being closed down.
Ask for: [FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

• [FONT=&quot]Screenshots of the subscription workflow where you were alleged to have signed up for this service.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]A description of what the service you are supposed to have subscribed to provides? Is this a newsletter, access to a web portal?[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Any evidence that after supposedly signing up for the service, you actually used it[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]The complete web server log of the subscription, including the User Agent strings containing all device details (browser, device type, device IP address) together with dates and times.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]If you are an O2 or GiffGaff customer and the signup was on or after 11th May 2019, auditable proof that the required PIN verification was completed.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Full company details of the company operating the service, country of registration, full name of company, company number and registered company address.[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot]Details of the company’s disputes procedure, including any ADR scheme you can refer the matter to if they fail to provide a full refund.[/FONT]

Insist that evidence specific to your case is provided. Often they try to fob you off by saying you must have clicked on a subscribe button and that their system is infallible! Even if "evidence" is provided it can be disputed. There is a great deal of independent evidence that these "subscriptions" can be spoofed by malware.
Often these companies start by offering a partial refund. Don't accept it! Invariably you will receive a full refund if you stand firm.
Few cases have gone to court, and to date none have been contested, resulting in consumers winning their claims.


Make sure that you also complain to the regulator (the Phone-paid Services Authority). They are pretty useless, but will sometimes act against scam companies if they get a large volume of complaints. They won't help you get a refund though.



[FONT=&quot] More resources for dealing with these scams is on the payforitsucks website.
[/FONT]

oscarblue

I got caught by one of these scambag companies for £4.50 for just opening a text message, I complained directly to the company who sent it, (valuestay.mobi) and they have agreed to cancel the account that I didnt open, and give me a full refund, if I send them my bank details. I'm just going to write it off rather than send them any details. the number the message came from is 65333, so beware!

Ian011

Send STOP to the mobile shortcode to end the subscription. Your mobile provider may charge around 10p or 12p to send this message as messages to shortcodes and not included in message allowances.

Use the PSA Number Checker to find the contact details of the premium rate service provider. Contact them for a refund of the charges.

Complain to both PSA and Action Fraud. PSA has the power to issue large penalties and ban providers from the market - and have done so on multiple occasions. ActionFraud is a division of the City of London Police.