Residential Parking Charge Notice - Double Yellow Lines

MrNotMyName

Hello All,

I've looked through the NEWBIES thread and looked for similar scenarios but I'm unable to find one (cue collective eye-roll from the forum regulars...).

My question is around residential permit parking.

Our property has recently switched parking control providers, with the new company coming out in force with a sustained ticketing regime.

Previously, people who have parking spaces far away from their apartment have parked on double yellow lines outside the apartment block.
All of these cars belong to residents and all display a permit, it's a practice I believe isn't considered an issue by residents (certainly not me).

Since the new provider has begun ticketing, we now park our car in our second space (a five minute walk from the apartment).
On a few occasions (heavy rain, grocery shopping bags etc.) we have parked our car on the double yellows and subsequently received tickets.
The three tickets we've received have gone past the '14 day appeal' deadline and now sit at £100 each.

Although we have now switched to parking further away, there are multiple people who still park daily on the double yellow lines.
Here lies my question(s); Who are these parking mavericks and what are they doing with the tickets they undoubtedly have received and continue to receive??

In my eyes there are clearly marked bays, clearly marked double yellow lines and a clearly visible sign with the fine in large font, visible from where they are parking.

Any advice you can provide on a 'stock response' to the parking company for a scenario such as this would be greatly appreciated.

FYI, the parking company is VCS and it's a residential car park in Liverpool.

Thanks in advance!

Umkomaas

There's no easy 'out'. Much will depend on what your deeds/leasehold/tenancy agreement says about parking.

You can use the template blue text appeal from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 (to show you've engaged in their process), which will be rejected, thereafter ignore everything unless you receive a Letter of Claim or real court proceedings, which you do not ignore. Come back on this thread if you get either.

Your efforts (and those of other affected residents) might, in the interim, be directed in trying to rid your estate of VCS.

This may well go to court as VCS are becoming increasingly litigious - so your community fightback should be aimed at them and the managing agent/company that brought them to your doorsteps.

Half_way

Parked, or unloading ( then moving to the space)?


Do you display a permit to park in your own space, if so why? what does your lease say? is this space your own, as part of the property?



Who is ticketing - VCS or a local busy body?

NeilCr

Who owns the freehold of the estate? Is it the owners of the properties or a separate freeholder? If it's the owners might be worth trying to find a resident director to have a discussion with

Best guess is that other residents have got fed up with the double yellow parking and have chewed someone's ear off about it. From experience you do get sides in these sort of issues. While you and some residents don't see a problem - there may be those who think you should stick to your spaces.

As a director of a residential site I would say we don't (and wouldn't) randomly paint yellow lines so I assume there was some sort of reason - not, necessarily a good one of course!

Having said that our contractor did paint a yellow line in the wrong place a while back. Interesting reaction - half, immediately stopped parking there - the other half just carried on regardless!

I'd also echo Umkomaas's comments about checking what's in your paperwork

MrNotMyName

Thanks for your quick replies.

We were parked for the night with VCS issuing tickets early the next morning (around 06:30)

The parking section within the tenancy agreement is very vague and states:
"To park in the car parking space, garage, or drive way allocated to the Premises, if applicable"

The apartment management company have appointed VCS to replace UKCPS.

The irony is that the permits are in fact pointless. The scheme states that parking charge notices will not be issued to cars not displaying a permit, parked in a bay. Except in the instance that you find someone in your bay and phone VCS to report it (which serves no purpose other than lining their pocket as you still can't park in your space...)

The car park is barrier controlled with tickets only being issued to cars parked on double yellow lines.

Thanks again.

NeilCr

Does your tenancy agreement specify the actual spaces?

It might be worth trying to get a look at your landlord's lease as that might have something more about parking in it.They might also know who the freeholder is

Are these yellow lines near other properties? I've got to be honest and say that I can see that some residents might get a bit p""""d off with folks parking on yellow lines while leaving their nearby spaces empty (if that is what is happening)

This might be quite a hard one to fight. What's the signage like on the estate?

MrNotMyName

No, no specificity in the agreement of spaces, although they are numbered so each corresponds to a flat number.

I completely agree that opinions on this will be split and I was surprised myself to see so many people parked on double yellows when we first moved in. Then I figured it was simply residents who didn't fancy walking 5 minutes to their door in the rain, so my opinions mellowed and we eventually joined them.

What I was hoping from the forum was someone who has been, or is still, in the same situation to understand what they're doing to counter it. Might be a long shot.

nosferatu1001

If your landlord owns the long leasehold then you can pay to get a copy of the lease from the Land Registry. Then you can see what the superior lease actually says - yo umay find that the MC had no business demarcating areas of the car park as "not to be parked in" as their rights dont extend that far.

NeilCr

MrNotMyName wrote: »

No, no specificity in the agreement of spaces, although they are numbered so each corresponds to a flat number.

I completely agree that opinions on this will be split and I was surprised myself to see so many people parked on double yellows when we first moved in. Then I figured it was simply residents who didn't fancy walking 5 minutes to their door in the rain, so my opinions mellowed and we eventually joined them.

What I was hoping from the forum was someone who has been, or is still, in the same situation to understand what they're doing to counter it. Might be a long shot.

Sorry.

I wasn't intentionally derailing.

In all honesty there is a process that those who are successful go through. It's pretty much the same whatever the issue although there are tweaks dependent on the situation. There are others on here who have had non "own space" tickets on estates and you should be able to find some of those

As Umkomaas said in #2 it is very unlikely that there is a quick win here and I'd strongly suggest you follow his advice on how to proceed - starting with sending the blue template

Sight of your landlord's lease - as suggested by a few of us - may give you some ammunition for further down the line

My questions were intended to clarify your situation - and my comments were about trying to be realistic and based on my experience as a director of a residents management company over the last 18 years or so

The_Deep

On a few occasions (heavy rain, grocery shopping bags etc.) we have parked our car on the double yellows and subsequently received tickets.

But surely this is loading/unloading not parking. Have you read this?

nebula.wsimg.com/f6d657adf7df70d27e1dd285688b5701?AccessKeyId=4CB8F2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1

What does the lease say about this?

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

NeilCr

The_Deep wrote: »

On a few occasions (heavy rain, grocery shopping bags etc.) we have parked our car on the double yellows and subsequently received tickets.

But surely this is loading/unloading not parking. Have you read this?

.

The OP also says in #5 that they were parked for the night and VCS were issuing tickets in the early morning - so sounds like there may be tickets for both "offences"