Victim of APP Fraud -help please

masonic

Office10 wrote: »

The Fraudster has moved some of my funds to the N26 bank and something called Worldremit.

N26 offers banking facilities, but Worldremit is just a money transfer service. I don't know if N26 offers the ability to load any of their accounts with money from a debit card, but the money sent to Worldremit was likely a debit card transaction. In which case it was all card fraud.

She also made various transactions to shops such as Pretty Little Things and Giglio with my credit card linked to my account.

Do you mean credit card or debit card? Credit cards are not "linked" to current accounts. The protections you may have are different depending on whether it is a credit or debit card.

The Halifax gave me a list of the transactions and the shops involved and left it to me to contact them. Some have stopped the transactions and others can’t because the goods have been delivered. A couple are willing to refund back to my account if the bank contacts them, but my bank won’t do that for me.

I have no idea where the goods have been delivered the shops won’t tell me because of GDPR.

You are the purchaser of the goods (whether you were aware at the time or not), so you have a legitimate interest under GDPR to the particulars of the delivery if you have not received the goods.

I thought this Was considered APP fraud? Apologies if not, it’s because the Fraudster got me to unwittingly authorise the transactions telling me they were fraudulent and asking me for the OP codes to remove them. I had no idea what OP codes were and foolishly trusted the fraudster as she seemed to be very knowledgeable.
I know this looks stupid and gullible behaviour when reading this, but at the time, I had no reason to disbelieve what she was telling me.

The important lesson here is to always disbelieve anyone who is trying to obtain information from you in relation to your bank account. Banks do not need information from customers in order to operate their own systems. If something needs to be done, they will do it. They might ask you for permission before they do it, but they will never require your help to take the necessary action.

As above, all you can really do is report to Action Fraud and pursue a complaint against Halifax, which may or may not be successful.

Terry_Towelling

Office10, could you say why you asked us to be kind to you at the outset? Were you expecting us to be unkind? Why?

Office10

Because I feel ashamed and embarrassed if I’m honest about being duped 😢 I’ve hardly slept for the last 4 days, since the incident occurred. I know I’ve been gullible and didn’t want people knocking me down further.
I’ve just been told by Bank that N26 are saying that the funds that were transferred from my account have been claimed by the fraudster, so I won’t be getting it back from them. Going to try my banks CR team as I had no idea my funds were going anywhere else other than an ‘alleged’ replacement account for myself. I didn’t authorise money to go anywhere else.
Got to keep fighting 😢

DCFC79

How did they get your phone number ?

You say something happened before, do you know how it happened, as it due to your pc being unsecure, not shread any paper with addresses on.

Office10

‘How did they get your phone number ?
You say something happened before, do you know how it happened, as it due to your pc being unsecure, not shread any paper with addresses on’

I have no idea how they got my phone number. I get loads of PPI calls anyway which I always block.
The bank would only tell me it was some kind of ‘wire x’ transfer that someone had done on my account? And that they would have to issue me with a new card?

What’s annoying me is that surely the N26 bank should be able to say where the money has gone and my bank should be more willing to understand what’s gone on and assist.

18cc

From what I understand about your post to fraudsters transferred money from your bank account to their bank account and made off with the money

could you please take some time to explain how the credit card was used did they transfer money from the credit card as well into your bank account or did they use the credit card for spending

eskbanker

Office10 wrote: »

I didn’t authorise money to go anywhere else.

Office10 wrote: »

my bank should be more willing to understand what’s gone on and assist

Trouble is, you did authorise the payments (even though you wrongly believed they were going to a new account for your use). Your bank uses a two-factor authentication method of security, which means that scammers can't just make such transfers without your knowledge as you're asked to authorise them, and so by explicitly authorising them you have become complicit as far as the bank is concerned. I believe that they are effectively arguing that they've done all they can reasonably be expected to do in preventing such scams and so beyond that point they can claim to have satisfied their 'effective warning' obligations under the code of conduct and the customer is therefore on their own.

Office10 wrote: »

What’s annoying me is that surely the N26 bank should be able to say where the money has gone

As explained in an earlier post, these scams typically involve sending money to transient accounts elsewhere that are promptly emptied (to prevent recovery of the funds). Clearly it shouldn't theoretically be possible for anyone to open bank accounts while remaining untraceable but the fact remains that it does happen.

Office10 wrote: »

The bank would only tell me it was some kind of ‘wire x’ transfer that someone had done on my account?

APP scams normally entail the customer actually making the transfers (under instruction) but if you're saying that your role was solely to authorise them then this does still leave the question of exactly how they were initiated. I don't know what 'wire x' means but there are only a finite number of ways of accessing your account in the first place to make a transfer, such as online/app banking, or by phone, or in branch, or maybe using your debit card details. In each case there are obviously security measures designed to prevent any misuse, so it doesn't seem unreasonable for you to push your bank for further details of exactly what happened, even if it's just so that you can take steps to protect your account for the future if it's been compromised.


Edit: if you haven't already, then read https://www.halifax.co.uk/aboutonline/security/protecting-yourself-from-fraud/bank-safely-scam-code/ and https://www.halifax.co.uk/aboutonline/security/protecting-yourself-from-fraud/bank-safely-scam-calls/ which do cover much of what I've just posted above!

Pay attention to our warnings

Our advanced systems help us to fight fraud. We can use them to warn you about a scam before you make a payment and when you:

• Set up a new payee.
• Amend an existing payee.

If you get a warning, make sure you take suitable action to protect your payment. We may not refund your money if you ignore a warning and fail to act.

Double check your payment

Before you make a payment, you need to double check all the details to make sure:

• you pay the right person or company
• that any services or goods you want to buy are genuine, and/or
• payments to invest are with a genuine company.

Don't rely on an email, text message or a caller ringing you to give correct payment details. To double check, call back on a number you know is theirs.

By doing this, you’ll help to protect yourself from scams and your right to a refund.

[...]

We will not give a refund if you do something dishonest or careless that helps a fraud take place.

[...]

Halifax will never ask you to:

• Share your account details like user ID, password and memorable information.
• Tell us your Personal Security Number (PSN) for Telephone Banking.
• Tell us your PIN code, expiry date, CVV number which is the last 3 digits of the security code on the back of your card.
• Move money to a so-called secure, safe or holding account.
• Move your money or ask you to transfer funds to a new sort code and account number.

born_again

DCFC79 wrote: »

How did they get your phone number ?

You say something happened before, do you know how it happened, as it due to your pc being unsecure, not shread any paper with addresses on.

Very easy. Just think of all the companies who have been hacked. Such as BA, talktalk etc. All these details available.
I dread to think how many companies are hacked but never admit or even know it has happened. Or have a employee taking and passing on details.

Card fraud. Every time you use your card, the retailer has your full card details (number & exp) on their system/till roll....

eskbanker

born_again wrote: »

Card fraud. Every time you use your card, the retailer has your full card details (number & exp) on their system/till roll....

Back in the pre PCI-DSS days that may have been true but it isn't anymore - any retailer recording full card numbers on till rolls would be hauled over the coals for doing so and would be held liable for losses arising from this.

Likewise the onerous security conditions for storing full card numbers within internal systems mean that most retailers will rely on (fully-accredited) external payment processors (such as WorldPay, SagePay, etc) to handle all card payments on their behalf.

Terry_Towelling

So we have someone who knew you had a Halifax Bank account and credit card and that you'd had a problem before. What was that previous problem, please?

The 'fraudster' was removing funds from your account with the aid of some OP code (whatever that may be). She told you she was moving them to a safe account. So, she was already in your bank account at the time. How do you imagine that might have happened? Who else would know your login details and memorable information?

Can you explain a little about the timeline of all this? You mention on 28/8 not sleeping during the 4 days since it happened, so it happened on 24/8. You first posted on 25/8 (the day after it had happened) and by that time, you say you'd already had enough sleepless nights despite it being only 1 night since it happened. During that 24 hours, you'd spotted the fraud, spoken to your bank, they'd investigated and refused to pay out, you'd contacted the companies involved in the credit card side of things and they had refused to help unless your bank contacted them.

You later say you've got some of the CC transactions stopped, but others have gone through because they've been delivered. This information doesn't sit very well with your earlier contention that the companies wouldn't help you.

It's going to be very hard to offer any assistance when nothing seems to hang together properly - wouldn't you say?