Very Messy Parking Fine Situation --- Demand for Payment --- Please help/What to do?

mrcurtis

Hello,

I'm a complete newbie to this forum and have joined as a last resort since I've found myself in a horrible parking fine situation, and do not know what to do. I've read the newbie thread and guidance surrounding parking fines, as well as other threads, but of course I find my situation to be uniquely problematic. It's quite long so I’ll lay out the facts chronologically as best I can.

I'm a relatively new driver; I passed my test at the end of March this year and got my first car not long after in early May. I live in a tall, old converted mill apartment building in the centre of my city. Running nearly the entire length of the building, between another mill building and a separate, fenced off car park, is the cobbled car park adjacent to my residency. This is where I’ve acquired the contraventions.

On the 12th of May 2019 I get my 1st ticket fine (a PCN), of £60, or this figure would be reduced by 50% if I paid within 2 weeks. I didn’t pay anything, and later that day I emailed my estate agent requesting a permit for the car park. I then made an appeal the following day on the 13th of May through MyParkingCharge.co.uk on the grounds that I am a resident to the property which I assumed gave me legitimate justification to park there, not knowing an actual physical permit was also required for display. I also explained I had left a note visible on my dashboard stating that; I am a resident of the apartment, and I am awaiting a permit. If there’s any issue, please call my number, which I provided. Later that day my estate agency informs me there is a fob to gain access to the underground carpark of my residence. I collected the fob the following day, however it wasn’t t working, so I continued parking in the residency car park.

On the 13th, 14th and 15h of May I receive the same ticket another 3 times. The 4th and final ticket I got on the 15th, I encounter the officer issuing me the ticket. He explained he was going to have to give me another ticket for not having the required permit displayed. However, I debated my legitimacy to park here since I was a resident and explained I had already made an appeal and that I was awaiting access to the underground carpark. At this point I was also still unaware of the fact that a physical permit was required, to which the ticket officer pointed one out to me. There was nothing I could do on the spot so incurred the final fine.

Later that day I emailed my estate agent telling them the entire parking fine situation up until that point. I also make a second appeal on the MyParkingCharge.co.uk site using the PCN reference from the first ticket incurred on the 12th of May and addressed the whole situation. I also got my estate agent to state in an email that there had been a genuine misunderstanding on my behalf regarding where I can and cannot parking. I'm also told that the car park is a private car park owned by Premier Estates.

On the 23rd of May 2019 I receive an email from the appeals place. The document stated that as a gesture of goodwill, they had decided to cancel the notice charge. This revoked the first ticket received on 12th of May.

On the 5th of July 2019 I receive 3 emails in reference to the 3 tickets incurred on the 13th, 14th and 15th of May. In them they state the following; “Unfortunately, we are unable to process your appeal as you did not submit it in time for it to be received within the time scale set out in the Charge Notice.” The statements goes on and informs me that the current charge now stands at £100 per ticket.

However, the time to appeal through the websites appeal site has long elapsed. And likewise, so has the time to appeal through the independent process.

On the 5th of August, I receive 3 horrible letters in reference to the 3 fines from the 13th, 14th and 15th of May. Each letter with the heading in red, bold letters, “DEMAND FOR PAYMENT”. I’ve now incurred “debt collection” costs of £60 for each fine. Each fine is now £160, totalling £480! (These payments are demanded for today's date, 19/08/2019).

Annoyingly, I’ve since discovered that having gone through all my tenancy documents, I’ve had the required blue permit all along. The permit is now displayed in my car window and I park in the adjacent carpark with no issues. The permit was valid from when I took out my tenancy in March last year and is valid until March next year.

I'm sure the permit was made aware of me at the time of taking out the tenancy. However since I wasn't a driver at the time, it seems reasonable to me, not to expect me to remember the information surrounding parking at the property. Likewise, I only stopped parking there once I found out a permit was required for display. This was on the 15th of May.

Should I pay this money? Do I go to court? But if I lose to case then costs could spiral for me surely?

This is the situation. Please can someone point me in the right direction from here?


Many thanks!

Coupon-mad

However, the time to appeal through the websites appeal site has long elapsed. And likewise, so has the time to appeal through the independent process.

Good.

You did NOT want to try IAS which is far from 'independent' or fair in our experience!

I’ve now incurred “debt collection” costs of £60 for each fine. Each fine is now £160, totalling £480!

No, you really have not.

Read any VCS defence threads where this is dealt with in detail already.

Do I go to court?

Yes and we have 99% win rate.

But if I lose to case then costs could spiral for me surely?

No. You have not read enough VCS defence threads if you thought that! No huge costs, no CCJ risk, nothing bad at all. Not even if the case is lost.

They can't add £60 a pop and you need to read some court claim threads to know this. And they cannot get huge costs either, unless the Judge is stupid and you don't argue properly about those fake costs.

Now look at your other tenancy documents and trawl them for words about rights of way and parking, and tell us EXACTLY what rights you were granted and whether the obligation to display a permit is CLEARLY stated and what it says (word for word).

fisherjim

And none of these charges are "fines"!

mrcurtis

I've just read through my documents again.

In the tenancy agreement it states under the header "Regulation for the shared areas of the buildings if you live in a flat", point number 9 states, "You must not park cars in any yard, garden or driveway of the building."

And, in the tenant handbook, on page 10 of 13 there is a small paragraph on parking that states "Should your property come with an allocated car parking space you will normally be allocated with a permit and a bay number. It is your responsibility to ensure the permit is displayed, and you are parking in the correct bay. Locate are not liable for any penalties incurred by failure to ensure any of the above is executed correctly"

This does not bode well for me now it would seem.

The_Deep

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

mrcurtis

Coupon-Mad, What do I do now?

waamo

I would see if your management agent will cancel it.

Umkomaas

mrcurtis wrote: »

Coupon-Mad, What do I do now?

What did you learn from the VCS threads Coupon-mad pointed you to?

mrcurtis

He wanted to know exactly what is in the tenancy agreement and to let "us" know. I gave the information but he didn't respond to it yet.

I still don't exactly know what I'm supposed to do....wait for court letters, a time and place, show up and state my case, what??

Half_way

As you have probably ascertained this whole private parking malarkey can rest on the interpretation of wording, and trying to get an understanding of the correct terms is important, hence the reason why you have been told that these are not fines or penalties.


So your situation doe snot involve fines or penalties, with that in mind look at your statement/quote from the handbook again...

And, in the tenant handbook, on page 10 of 13 there is a small paragraph on parking that states "Should your property come with an allocated car parking space you will normally be allocated with a permit and a bay number. It is your responsibility to ensure the permit is displayed, and you are parking in the correct bay. Locate are not liable for any penalties incurred by failure to ensure any of the above is executed correctly"

So if there is no explicit penalty then the above is a nonsense, so things aren't looking as bad you think.


Also the signage in these cases is often woefully inadequate, what does that look like?

mrcurtis

I have 3 letters demanding payment of £160 each. These are for 3 separate incidents over 3 days. These were Penalty Charge Notices of £60 each, which increased to £100, then to £160 for not paying anything.

So if there is no explicit penalty then the above is a nonsense, so things aren't looking as bad you think.

Also the signage in these cases is often woefully inadequate, what does that look like

So are you saying that I don't have to pay anything? I should continue ignoring these horrible letters demanding lots of money?

There are quite a few signs up and down the area. However being a resident, I never really paid attention. Read my initial post if you haven't already.