Yes another PCN...But wait

TonyTheMacaroni

nosferatu1001 wrote: »

Step back a bit

This is parking eye, so theres a great chance they met keeper liability anyway. So i wouldnt bother confusing things

Did the driver OR passenger of the car have a protected characterisitc?
If YES then contact PE and tell them, Invite them to withdraw their claim as they will lose on this basis - as they have failed to make reasonale adjustments. They in fact have *no* mehtod in place to allow for additiponal time to be "requested" (it actually should not need to be requested) and so they are in breach of the EA2010.

Hi, thanks for the reply


I have completed the AOS form online.


Should I now write a letter explaining the situation in full, registered keeper was not the driver, copy of disability badge, drs letter etc? to PE? and ask them to retract the claim?


Is there an example template I should be following or any specific terminology I should use?

Coupon-mad

I have completed the AOS form online.

Right, so you know that your defence must now follow and the NEWBIES thread gives examples galore in the second post all about the court process.

Should I now write a letter explaining the situation in full, registered keeper was not the driver, copy of disability badge, drs letter etc? to PE? and ask them to retract the claim?

Yes (not a letter, an email to enforcement@) but not forgetting to defend as well of course!

Is there an example template I should be following or any specific terminology I should use?

Not for an email, no. Write it from the heart with info about the disability and say so, clearly, if the registered keeper was not the driver. I am NOT saying to name that driver.

Re templates - yes for the defence of course, as per the NEWBIES thread post #2.

TonyTheMacaroni

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Right, so you know that your defence must now follow and the NEWBIES thread gives examples galore in the second post all about the court process.


Yes (not a letter, an email to enforcement@) but not forgetting to defend as well of course!

Not for an email, no. Write it from the heart with info about the disability and say so, clearly, if the registered keeper was not the driver. I am NOT saying to name that driver.

Re templates - yes for the defence of course, as per the NEWBIES thread post #2.

How would I defend the use of the blue badge and evidence of disability without naming the driver?

Le_Kirk

The person with the disability/BB could be a passenger in the car.

TonyTheMacaroni

Le_Kirk wrote: »

The person with the disability/BB could be a passenger in the car.

The person with the disability was driving, the registered owner was not.

Coupon-mad

I understand that you said the keeper wasn't the driver:

and stated that the keeper was not driving at the time

So the keeper can complain without naming that driver. Cover the full name (maybe just show a first name, to prove this is not you!) on any evidence you send to prove the disability...GP's letter, or Blue Badge, etc., whatever you have.

DO NOT FORGET THE DEFENCE. This is just a disability issue 'heads up' email to try to make P/Eye think again but you will NOT be sitting waiting for the reply:

enforcement@parkingeye.co.uk

You can say something like this, if you were not in the car yourself and if time was spent getting petrol during the visit, too (which is not parking time):

The driver of the car - who was not myself, and I was not even in the car - meets the definition of disability as set out in the Equality Act 2010 and as such, as service providers, ParkingEye and Welcome Break had a joint and several legal duty to make 'reasonable adjustments' of time, in advance, with a suitable system that allows for this provision where it is needed by virtue of a visitor's medical condition.

What adjustments to the 2 hour time did you make available and where were they advertised, as I will be asking the Judge to consider the 'reasonable adjustments' rights in the Equality Act?

When it comes to the general public at large, it is never a defence for a trader to say they ''did not know'' about an individual visitor's medical condition and need (and legal right) for exemption or extension of the time limit you apply to all other visitors to the services. Please do not insult my intelligence by trying that response now or in your witness statement as you and I both know this is not what the Act says about 'indirect discrimination'.

It is your legal duty under the statutory EHRC Code of Practice annexed to the Act, to make adjustments in anticipation of a percentage of drivers/passengers to have a legal right to more time to go about daily life and to make that system known. You will never know who those people are and cannot blame those people for not telling you or the services staff, if you fail to note on your signs what such a person can do, in order to be allowed their right to more time. This was not even mentioned on the PCN either.

I attach copies of the Blue Badge/GP's letter and/or a webpage explaining the medical conditions that give rise to that visitor needing to use their legal right to more time than the 'two hours all told on site, including driving in and out/getting petrol' that you routinely and unfairly apply, even though the Dept For Transport sets the 2 hours as a bare minimum parking time (actually stationary and parked in the car park) in their statutory requirements for motorway services.

The 24 minutes is accounted for in the time spent in the petrol station, plus the driving in and out grace periods required to reach the car park, and leave (the latter must be a minimum of a mandatory ten minutes, in itself). This is not parking time and is not as set out in the mandatory time allowances set as a minimum by the DFT.

The hour is the reasonable adjustment you should have made, under the Equality Act 2010. I am aware that ParkingEye DOES advertise and allow an extra hour of parking, or even unlimited parking, for disabled people at some sites, but not others. Why is this?

I urge ParkingEye to withdraw this claim immediately and review your signs due to your utter failure to address the rights of disabled visitors to Motorway Services.

Should you continue with the claim, causing my family to suffer further distress and/or loss, I will support the disabled driver of the car, in suing Welcome Break for their own liability for allowing your conduct to breach the Equality Act 2010.

DO NOT HEAD IT WITH ANYTHING DAFT LIKE WITHOUT PREJUDICE! Just the PCN and the Claim number.

You want to be able to show this email exchange and evidence to the Judge & point to the Equality Act section on indirect discrimination and reasonable adjustments as a legal duty in anticipation of such drivers' needs.

Le_Kirk

TonyTheMacaroni wrote: »

The person with the disability was driving, the registered owner was not.

No such thing as a registered owner, however follow Coupon-mad's advice above.

TonyTheMacaroni

Cheers everyone for the help. Email sorted and sent

TonyTheMacaroni

I have a response to my email:


Good morning,

Thank you for your correspondence received in relation to claim number XXXXXXXXX

You state that you were not driving the vehicle at the time of the parking event but pursuant to Schedule 4 the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, this is no longer a valid argument against the Parking Charge that has been issued. It is clearly stated on our signs that action will be taken to recover the Parking Charge amount should the terms and conditions of parking be breached, and that vehicle keeper details will be requested from the DVLA to enable this. The DVLA release the name and address details of a vehicle keeper to registered companies, such as ParkingEye, if ‘reasonable cause’ can be demonstrated; i.e. a breach of parking regulations.

Paragraph 9(2)(b) of Schedule 4 of the POFA 2012 states that the operator (ParkingEye) must inform the Registered Keeper of the vehicle that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay the Parking Charge in full and that the Registered Keeper should, if not the driver, provide the operator with the driver’s name and current postal address, and pass the notice to them.

The correspondence sent to yourself stated:

“You are notified under paragraph 9(2)(b) of schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 that the driver of the motor vehicle is required to pay this parking charge in full. As we do not know the driver’s name or current postal address, if you were not the driver at the time, you should tell us the name and current postal address of the driver and pass this notice to them. You are warned that if, after 29 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the Date Issued), the parking charge has not been paid in full and we do not know both the name and current address of the driver, we have the right to recover any unpaid part of the parking charge from you. This warning is given to you under Paragraph 9(2)(f) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under Schedule 4 of that Act.”

Once the Registered Keeper has been contacted, it is their responsibility to provide the operator with the name and contact address of the driver within 28 days and if, after 29 days, the Parking Charge has not been paid in full, and the operator does not know both the name and current address of the driver, then they can recover any unpaid part of the Parking Charge from the Registered Keeper.

We recently sent you a Letter Before Action, which informed you that the above Parking Charge remains outstanding and had now been processed for further action. This is because we had not received an appeal or payment from you within the time period stated on the first Parking Charge Notice.

This notice informed you that all appeals should be put in writing and submitted to ParkingEye within 28 days of our initial correspondence. Appealing at that stage would have also given you the chance to lodge a further appeal with POPLA (Parking on Private Land Appeals Service) had your appeal to ParkingEye proved to be unsuccessful.

Please note that the time to lodge an appeal has now passed and we would advise you to follow the instructions provided with the claim form, wherein you may make payment or submit a defence.

Payment can be made by telephoning our offices on 0330 555 4444, by visiting www.parkingeye.co.uk, or by posting a cheque/postal order to the below address. Please note that you must quote the above Parking Charge reference on the reverse of the cheque or postal order.

Yours sincerely,

ParkingEye Enforcement Team


Is it me or is this ignoring the disability issue and just waffle?

Le_Kirk

Interesting as to how they interpret PoFA Paragraph 9 (2)(b) as it only states: -

(2)The notice must—

(b)inform the keeper that the driver is required to pay parking charges in respect of the specified period of parking and that the parking charges have not been paid in full;

..... and (f) states: -

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

Nowhere in there does it state that the Keeper MUST inform the creditor (the PPC) of the Driver's name and address for service. Maybe you could ask them to show us all where the PoFA states that!