Handy man/decorator quite vs estimate where do I stand?

9abby

Hi All,

I'd be grateful for some advice please. I asked a local handyman for a quote to finish off several rooms in my house which included some small plastering sections, general prep before painting and painting/decorating. He provided me with a price and a time scale of 15 days. He achieved less than 50% of the work and is now refusing to return to complete. I havent payed his last 2 invoices yet and was wondering where I stand legally and he has now sent me a letter before claim.!
I now know that despite asking him for a quote, he sent me an estimate but the covering letter with this estimate says!

"Please find attached estimate for labour. There are quite a few jobs I could complete simultaneously whilst paint drys etc so may change if there are no issues"!

This indicated to me that the price was to complete all the works and may change for the better if at all.!

I immediately replied to this estimate asking for a detailed itemisation of what works would be completed. He replied saying he usually sends a more detailed estimate once he has my acceptance of the initial estimate.!

He said he does it this way as compiling the itemised list could be a waste of his time if I am not happy with the original estimated cost.

I replied accepting his estimate and requesting the list.

I received nothing for over 6 weeks and thought he had forgotten about me but out of the blue, the day before he was meant to start work he send me an email. This email basically said he was due to start work the next day and where would I like him to start.

I replied asking again for the list and said lets go through the job again when you get here. We did this the next day and he worked for 3 days and still did not provide a list. So, I decided to send him the list. I got no reply but did speak to him one morning before leaving for work and he said he had received it.!

Basically he has completed less than 50% and is demanding all the money with no offer to continue working. My house is a mess still and he as now sent me a letter before claim.!

I suppose I just need to know if I have no choice but to pay or do I have some way of fighting back?

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your help.

9abby

Sorry everyone to be clear, he stopped working because the 3 weeks he estimated the work to take had elapsed. At that stage though less than half of the work requested at survey stage was completed. The handyman had initial come to my house to carry out a survey and take notes of what was required so he could give me a price for the job.
What he appears to be saying now that the work is not completed is that his price was simply to work for me for 3 weeks but not to complete all the work.
My quarrel is that even if this is true, I was not made aware of this at the point I agreed to his price. Had I known he was giving me a price to just work for me for 3 weeks but had no intention of completing, I would not have hired him.!
As for the list I refer to, this is a list that he and I compiled at the survey but I never received a break down from him when he gave me his price if you see what I mean. I asked him 2 times in the 6 weeks before he was due to start and once again after his 1st day but never received a list of what I would be receiving for my money.


I get the feeling that because he has sent me an estimate and not a quote I may not have a defence, is this true?

tacpot12

I think you are both on difficult ground here.

To have only completed half the work in the estimated time suggests that the initial estimate was off, but the handyman knew it would be because it was only a rough estimate and he was supposed to have provided a detailed estimate BEORE work started.

You gave him plenty of time to improve the estimate, and although I doubt you ever said so explicitly, the number of times you asked for the improved estimate suggested that you were "price-sensitive" and unwilling to go ahead without the final estimate being provided. (In future, cancelling the job when the final estimate did not arrive would have been the best option.)

I don't think the Handyman provided a price for three weeks work with the intention that he would not complete all the jobs and leave you hanging. I think he just badly underestimated the amount of work involved.

Because you didn't get a quote, you can't expect the handyman to complete the work for the price agreed. You can expect to get a reasonable amount of work for the money you paid - if you feel that the handyman withheld the detailed estimate to allow him to effectively double his prices, you need to show the judge that the work he did was too little for the money. You would really need another experienced handyman to estimate (or better still, quote for) the cost of works that have been completed.

If there are any problems with the quality of the work, you could counter-claim for rectification work (you would need three estimates to show the court). If the work is good quality, I would pay up and find another handyman to complete the work.

pinkshoes

When you asked for the quote, was this in writing?

Given he came round to price the job up, then either there was a huge problem that prevented him completing half the work, or he is completely incompetent!

[Deleted User]

9abby wrote: »

Hi All,

I'd be grateful for some advice please. I asked a local handyman for a quote to finish off several rooms in my house which included some small plastering sections, general prep before painting and painting/decorating. He provided me with a price and a time scale of 15 days. He achieved less than 50% of the work and is now refusing to return to complete. I havent payed his last 2 invoices yet and was wondering where I stand legally and he has now sent me a letter before claim.!
I now know that despite asking him for a quote, he sent me an estimate but the covering letter with this estimate says!

"Please find attached estimate for labour. There are quite a few jobs I could complete simultaneously whilst paint drys etc so may change if there are no issues"!

This indicated to me that the price was to complete all the works and may change for the better if at all.!

I immediately replied to this estimate asking for a detailed itemisation of what works would be completed. He replied saying he usually sends a more detailed estimate once he has my acceptance of the initial estimate.!

He said he does it this way as compiling the itemised list could be a waste of his time if I am not happy with the original estimated cost.

I replied accepting his estimate and requesting the list.

I received nothing for over 6 weeks and thought he had forgotten about me but out of the blue, the day before he was meant to start work he send me an email. This email basically said he was due to start work the next day and where would I like him to start.

I replied asking again for the list and said lets go through the job again when you get here. We did this the next day and he worked for 3 days and still did not provide a list. So, I decided to send him the list. I got no reply but did speak to him one morning before leaving for work and he said he had received it.!

Basically he has completed less than 50% and is demanding all the money with no offer to continue working. My house is a mess still and he as now sent me a letter before claim.!

I suppose I just need to know if I have no choice but to pay or do I have some way of fighting back?

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your help.

Of course you do, just don't pay. The letter before action is most probably just a threat to get you to pay up. Of course this is dependant on your story being complete as they could still take it forward.

wagtamm

9abby wrote: »

Hi All,

I'd be grateful for some advice please. I asked a local handyman for a quote to finish off several rooms in my house which included some small plastering sections, general prep before painting and painting/decorating. He provided me with a price and a time scale of 15 days. He achieved less than 50% of the work and is now refusing to return to complete. I havent payed his last 2 invoices yet and was wondering where I stand legally and he has now sent me a letter before claim.!
I now know that despite asking him for a quote, he sent me an estimate but the covering letter with this estimate says!

"Please find attached estimate for labour. There are quite a few jobs I could complete simultaneously whilst paint drys etc so may change if there are no issues"!

This indicated to me that the price was to complete all the works and may change for the better if at all.!

I immediately replied to this estimate asking for a detailed itemisation of what works would be completed. He replied saying he usually sends a more detailed estimate once he has my acceptance of the initial estimate.!

He said he does it this way as compiling the itemised list could be a waste of his time if I am not happy with the original estimated cost.

I replied accepting his estimate and requesting the list.

I received nothing for over 6 weeks and thought he had forgotten about me but out of the blue, the day before he was meant to start work he send me an email. This email basically said he was due to start work the next day and where would I like him to start.

I replied asking again for the list and said lets go through the job again when you get here. We did this the next day and he worked for 3 days and still did not provide a list. So, I decided to send him the list. I got no reply but did speak to him one morning before leaving for work and he said he had received it.!

Basically he has completed less than 50% and is demanding all the money with no offer to continue working. My house is a mess still and he as now sent me a letter before claim.!

I suppose I just need to know if I have no choice but to pay or do I have some way of fighting back?

Thanks for reading and thanks in advance for your help.

9abby wrote: »

Sorry everyone to be clear, he stopped working because the 3 weeks he estimated the work to take had elapsed. At that stage though less than half of the work requested at survey stage was completed. The handyman had initial come to my house to carry out a survey and take notes of what was required so he could give me a price for the job.
What he appears to be saying now that the work is not completed is that his price was simply to work for me for 3 weeks but not to complete all the work.
My quarrel is that even if this is true, I was not made aware of this at the point I agreed to his price. Had I known he was giving me a price to just work for me for 3 weeks but had no intention of completing, I would not have hired him.!
As for the list I refer to, this is a list that he and I compiled at the survey but I never received a break down from him when he gave me his price if you see what I mean. I asked him 2 times in the 6 weeks before he was due to start and once again after his 1st day but never received a list of what I would be receiving for my money.


I get the feeling that because he has sent me an estimate and not a quote I may not have a defence, is this true?

You need to refer to the contract you agreed. You seem very confused as to what was agreed. But if you are sure the contract was to cover the work specified, irrespective of how long or short it took, then don't pay and be prepared to go to court and provide the evidence to the judge as to why you don't think you should pay.

But it seems to me the handyman is more sure of his position. He seems to suggest he agreed to supply you 3 weeks work, did 3 weeks work, and now wants paying for those 3 weeks. In fact, as you say "I havent payed his last 2 invoices yet", would it be correct to suggest he invoiced you on a weekly basis as he completed each week's work?

But without seeing the contract, it's difficult to be sure either way.

9abby

Hi tacpot,

Thanks for the reply. Yes I agree, perhaps I should have cancelled and yes you are right, the job was price sensitive but aren't all things for most people? I had saved £2480 for family holiday which we all agreed would be best spent getting the house in order so that was my budget give or take I did not make the handy man aware of my budget at any point. Below is the thread leading up to the work starting and after he had came to survey. My initial contact (not shown below) was by email specifically asking for a quote and not an estimate.

I agree that he was way off with his estimate and i think he knows this, i would just like him to admit it so we can work something out. I have already told him that i dont expect him to finish everything but i would just like a little more done for the price I've payed. Like I said, less than 50% of the work has been done and not one room was completed. He did manage to paint my sons room but did very little prep work. He painted all walls without preping the woodwork so they were imposible to sand without damaging the freshly painted walls. Painted over holes without filling, painted around curtain holders leaving gaps etc it was a really poor job.

Handyman:Good evening xxxxxx
Please find attached estimate for labour.! There are quite a few jobs I could complete simultaneously whilst paint drys etc so may change if there are no issues.!!
We can discuss what materials you would like me to pick up as and when.
I am available Monday 8 July to Friday 26 July.! I am then booked until late August.
Kind regards
××××××××

Me: Thanks xxxxxx
Price is ok but can we itemise it a bit before we start so we're clear on what's to be done. Would be great if you could start a bit soon er but if that's the earliest then I'll go with that.
Thanks

Handyman: Hi xxxxxx
Thanks for your reply - for some reason you ended up in my Spam folder!! Sorted now.
Unfortunately I can't start any earlier as I am fully booked.!
I normally send a more detailed estimate, with materials I believe I need, after the initial labour estimate. Experience has taught me that on the bigger jobs it can take some time to put together and if the customer is not happy then I have wasted time sourcing prices etc. My material prices are the same as retail prices and i will also tell you the source.
Regards!

Xxxxxx

Me: Thanks xxxxxx,
Ok well let's get it booked in and we can!go from there.
I'm happy to proceed now and we can sort the detail out!nearer the time.
Thanks again,

Handyman: (sent 6 weeks later and the evening before he was due to start the work)
Good morning xxxxxx
I am due to start with you Monday and was wondering if you have a particular order you want things completed within. Happy to start with Lounge etc if that's your priority. I will be with you from 0830hrs.

Xxxxxx

Me: (not wanting to lose the dates I accept and decide we will go through the list on the 1st day)
Hi xxxxxx
Thought youd forgotten about me, I have to leave for work at 07:30 but I'll hang on for you. I was expecting a more detailed estimate so we both know what to expect. I'll hang on for you until 08:30 and can stick arround for a bit to show you where I'd like to start. It's mostly plasterboard sections in the dining room, stairs, landing and kitchen and the door frame from dining into living room. Thanks for coming back to me. I'll see you tomorrow

I asked him on the 1st day he started if he could send me the list and after the 3rd day of not receiving it I decided to write it out for each room and send it to him. I got no reply and the next time I saw him before leaving for work I asked if he received it. He said yes and thanked me for sending it.

Anyway, thanks for reading I know this is quite a post, let me know what you think.

9abby

Hi pinkshoes

Yes the request for a quote was in writing.

wagtamm

9abby wrote: »

...I have already told him that i dont expect him to finish everything but i would just like a little more done for the price I've payed. Like I said, less than 50% of the work has been done and not one room was completed. He did manage to paint my sons room but did very little prep work. He painted all walls without preping the woodwork so they were imposible to sand without damaging the freshly painted walls. Painted over holes without filling, painted around curtain holders leaving gaps etc it was a really poor job....

So it seems this was not a contract for specific work to be done, rather one for his time (and materials).

And you seem to be shifting youir position even more. You say he has not completed any room, but he claerly has completed your son's room.

The issue you now seem to be arguing is one of tghe standard of work that has been done.

Again, it's down to what was specified in the contract you agreed. Sadly it does not seem you specified anything in a contract.

The guy has done 3 weeks work, and and wants paying for those 3 weeks as per the quotation (plus any materials he claims to have purchased charged at retail prices)

Probably not the answer you want to hear, so I'll leave it at that

9abby

Wagamama,

I'm not shifting my possition at all. I was clear when I called him what I wanted, I was clear at the survey of what I wanted and we worked on a list together. He has shifted his possition if he has sent me something different from what we have discussed.

I am very clear in my posts that he has not finished any of the rooms. He painted the walls in my sons room (to a poor stamdard) but the room was by no means finished. Usually painting is the last thing to be done but there was so much more required as we discussed at his survey and as was written in the list I gave him. Are you reading my posts carefully?

I'm not on here to argue with people, I'm simply looking for advice for the situation I am in.

To be clear

I asked him to if he could quote

He attended a survey

We made lists for works to be done in each room

He sent me his price

I asked for him to itemise it

He said he normally does this after the initial estimate has been accepted

I accepted and asked for the list

He messages me the evening before hes due to start

I ask again for the list

I never receive the list

He leaves having completed less than 50 percent of the work we had agreed.


If you read his email, he says "the price may change (as in, get cheaper) if he doesn't encounter any problems."

If nothing else this tells me he is estimating the entire job and not just 3 weeks work as he is now claiming.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Given it's an estimate it appears you are paying for his time (plus materials), although estimates can obviously change (in both directions) being 50% out is pretty poor.

You can't refuse to pay anything at all as presumably he has done some work.

Was you there when work was going on? Did he get on with it or spend the day drinking tea?

If he was working hard for the time spent with you then his hourly rate, minus the cost of redoing anything that isn't up to standard, seems fair.

If you can post some photos of what has been done and how the job has been left it'll probably gives posters a better idea of the situation.