Handy man/decorator quite vs estimate where do I stand?

9abby

Thanks,
I wa here for maybe 3 of the 15 days he was here. On one of those days he took an entire day to take off two radiators and fix the skirting boards to the wall directly behind those radiators. He did nothing else that day telling me the radiators took a very long time to drain as he didnt want to get water on my floor. I didnt argue but I thought that was a waste of time personally. At one point i came down to help him because it was taking so long.

I also asked him to overboard the old lathe and plaster ceiling in the landing (aproximateley 1m x 3m) instead, he took the lining paper off it and half of it came down, he then patch repaired the ceiling and gave this as one of his reasons for the job running over. He told me it took him ages to clean up and I can imagine it did, that stuff gets everywhere. The point is, i knew this and this is why i asked him to overboard it.

Its difficult to put pictures up here i havent quite figured it out but when i get a bit more time I'll put some up for everyone to take a look at.

Thanks again for the advice.

pinkshoes

You clearly asked for a quote.

He clearly replied with an estimate.

BUT... as you said this was based on him visiting the property, then only completing 50% of the work he thought he would is in incompetent. You made it very clear to him that the budget was to complete all the work, and NOT a daily rate plus material.

I would start by getting a couple of others to quote how much it is going to cost to finish the work and make good anything he has not done properly. Ask how much they would have quoted for the whole job in the first place and how long it would take to do.

The price you pay him needs to reflect how much it will cost you to complete the remaining work.

If he takes it to court, then he will not look good having completed so little of what was clearly requested as a quote.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

9abby wrote: »

Its difficult to put pictures up here i havent quite figured it out but when i get a bit more time I'll put some up for everyone to take a look at.

With thanks to societys child

societys_child wrote: »

Save pic/photo to your desktop

go to :https://postimages.org/
click 'Choose Images' - pics on your desktop should appear
click the pic you want - then click 'OPEN'
A menu appears - First on menu is 'LINK' - click the corresponding icon on right hand side. Should say 'Copied'
Paste the link into your forum post.

*As a new user you can't post links, so delete HTTPS:// from the link.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

9abby wrote: »

Thanks,
On one of those days he took an entire day to take off two radiators and fix the skirting boards to the wall directly behind those radiators. He did nothing else that day telling me the radiators took a very long time to drain as he didnt want to get water on my floor. I didnt argue but I thought that was a waste of time personally. At one point i came down to help him because it was taking so long.

That doesn't sound promising to me...

9abby wrote: »

I also asked him to overboard the old lathe and plaster ceiling in the landing (aproximateley 1m x 3m) instead, he took the lining paper off it and half of it came down, he then patch repaired the ceiling and gave this as one of his reasons for the job running over. He told me it took him ages to clean up and I can imagine it did, that stuff gets everywhere. The point is, i knew this and this is why i asked him to overboard it.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/section/49/enacted

49Service to be performed with reasonable care and skill
Service to be performed with reasonable care and skill
(1)Every contract to supply a service is to be treated as including a term that the trader must perform the service with reasonable care and skill.
(2)See section 54 for a consumer’s rights if the trader is in breach of a term that this section requires to be treated as included in a contract.

54Consumer’s rights to enforce terms about services

(2)In this section and section 55 a reference to a service conforming to a contract is a reference to—
(a)the service being performed in accordance with section 49, or

(3)If the service does not conform to the contract, the consumer’s rights (and the provisions about them and when they are available) are—
(a)the right to require repeat performance (see section 55);
(b)the right to a price reduction (see section 56).

Basically the job has to be carried out with care and skill, if not you have the right for the service to be performed again at the traders cost or the right to a price reduction if the trader can't.

(a)must provide it within a reasonable time and without significant inconvenience to the consumer

Do you have the list of jobs and price due?

Pinkshoes is correct, if he does take you to court, quotes from others for full job/completion plus examples of the job not being done with reasonable care and skill will favour you but you should offering him something for the work he has done.

I would keep everything in writing from now on so you have a paper trail to show your side of events.

twang72

Just wondering on this part here ;

'He leaves having completed less than 50 percent of the work we had agreed'

Did you have this in writing in the contract or was it agreed verbally between you and the builder ?

It is a tricky and odd situation your in and maybe both sides could have been more clear or more time allowed to complete the job, but regardless if hes done a poor job and has not done as what he has said he would do and you gave the builder the agreed time to do it within then imo you should not have to pay the complete builders fee.

Where possible id resolve it between both of parties, its tricky and a long process going the legal route and goodness knows which side wins and has to fork out more money and time if you get me.

Btw nothing to feel bad about, I have used 6 companies and builders and the only language I got from builders was lies and excuses and not one completed the job to what they said they would or to a good enough standard imo, you only know if a builder or trader is genuine till they get the job going or completed so its a chicken and egg case sadly.

I have simply paid up and happy to see their backsides frankly !

Your story reminds me of another guy who paid few builders to do a patio but the guys simply threw concrete on grass and threw the slabs on top and when he stopped and said you gotta dig and flatten the ground they said nope and you still have to pay, argument followed after and they said we will leave with full pay or you have trouble, he paid the 5 guys and counted his losses sadly but its sadly become more normal.

If you can find a company or builder that says what they will do and does it right from start, middle to finish then you have won the lotto imo

9abby

Thanks so much for advice on how to post pics. It took me a while but here are some examples (there are more if anyone needs to see them.
Some images of the work he did and later, the work I did to put it right.

Thanks again for your comments so far everyone. It's been really helpful to get your advice which is much appreciated.

This is the caulk line to window sill, no prep to woodwork https://postimg.cc/PC4jw0qP

This is how painting was finished no prep, painting arround old curtain holder that was coming down anyway. https://postimg.cc/6TmT72mD

Painting arround a redundant vent in chimney breast. https://postimg.cc/fJ74G1mB

Painting over screw holes and other holes. No prep. https://postimg.cc/VdPQHzrJ


Creases in lining paper, no caulk lines where fire surround meets wall. https://postimg.cc/tshgmr4j

No prep whatsoever simply painted the wall with no eye for the finish. https://postimg.cc/2qSfFTqT

Painted over bad wall repair, paint already lifting at corner. https://postimg.cc/JtGzW7zK

Creases in lining paper. https://postimg.cc/JyMhwbsB

This was an old cupboard frame which had doors I asked him to remove all frame and put in some simple shelves. He left it like this I have no idea (even if I where to keep the frame) quite how the woodwork could be filled prepped and sanded without damaging the painting to the walls. https://postimg.cc/JyMhwbsB


Simply painted the entire loft hatch, in situe with ceiling emultion leaving huge drips on corners. https://postimg.cc/dLZ3GQMD

No prep to woodwork 1 https://postimg.cc/xXrC5rY5


No prep to woodwork 2 https://postimg.cc/23brKH0K

No prep to woodwork 3 https://postimg.cc/vxVyxB1s

Wood panelling that already had flaking paint has simply been painted over so paint peels off. https://postimg.cc/d76VJLCN

Painted over already flaking paint with no prep. https://postimg.cc/z36XDmLN

Paint lifting after his paint job. https://postimg.cc/2b3rmTr3


This is me removing all lining paper and repairing walls. Removing old cupboard frame to add shelves, prepping paint work and generally putting right the bad job I was left with. https://postimg.cc/CBRhgYVW

Painting over holes no prep https://postimg.cc/VdPQHzrJ

No call, filler or prep off any sort. Painting over old nails. https://postimg.cc/2bPRYD0X

This is another wall, lining paper removed by me to prep wall properly. Redundant chimney vent removed and patched up for painting.
https://postimg.cc/0625VDX5

Finished by me, this is the area where he had painted arround the redundant curtain holder. https://postimg.cc/Tpb2pkmD

Finished by me. This is the area with the surface mounted socket and cabling. Cabling removed and socket relocated and fitted flush. Woodwork preped, wall repaired and both painted to a better finish. https://postimg.cc/Y49Jm9Vs

Finished by me. Thus is the area (right hand wall of cupboard) where he had painted over flaking paint. I removed his paint and the old paint by sanding, took me just 45 minutes. I fitted a desk and ran in new light and switch. https://postimg.cc/vDJbFWjH

Finished by me. This is the desk area of my sons room with walls and all woodwork prepped and painted. https://postimg.cc/bDFY2W3Q

Finished by me. Removed lining paper, repaired wall, preped all areas and painted fire place. https://postimg.cc/DS2Vn5cF


Thus is the finished room. It took me 3 and a half days to undo what he did and put it right. When he left it the way he had, he had been in there for 2 days. https://postimg.cc/sMKkXSnW

9abby

Sorry, picture of the old cupboard frame I wanted him to take out and replace with shelves is here. He left the frame in and like I said I have no idea why and no idea how he was going to keep the woodwork of this frame without damaging his paint job. I had asked him to remove this frame in any case so it a mystery to me why he decided to paint these areas without any sort of preparation. https://postimg.cc/7JGH19Wj

pinkshoes

That work is really shoddy!!

Get some trusted decorators in to quote as above. Perhaps they would even out in writing the quality of the work done and state that it is unprofessional etc...

Did you see pictures of previous work this guy had done??

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

Doesn't look great to me either, what was his hourly rate?

9abby

Thanks again pinkshoes. There are other areas I could ask people to quote for but I have finished this room now so cant do much about that. I did have to take 4 days off work just for this though. I did see pictures of his work on his Facebook profile and all looked ok. Thinking about it now though this was all in new or newish build houses with clean fresh walls. My house is pretty old and so are the walls but I dont think this should be an excuse for the finish he left me with.

The lunatic is in my head u was paying him £150 per day plus the cost of any materials he bought which in my opinion is a waste of money as the materials where wasted quite frankly.