PIP tribunal and evidence (or lack of).

kazzah

They've said 'your mental state examination showed you were calm and relaxed, made appropriate eye contact, your mood appeared stable and you did not need any questions repeated or simplified. You appeared to have insight into your condition, medication and functional abilities and were well orientated to the environment'. I was there which is why he may have seemed "calm and relaxed", but he was stammering for 80% of the time, the assessor had to rephrase 1/4 of the questions and I had to rephrase another 1/4. I don't think his eye contact is relevant, even with Aspergers people can have good eye contact, mood appearance is different to how he felt (we came straight home and he went back to bed). He isn't able to remember when to take his medication, he doesn't remember what it is, I had to answer this for him.



OMG- you have LITERALLY just quoted almost verbatim the decision for my sons PIP refusal ( he has ASD /Anxiety) he sat with his head phones on and could barely speak at his assessment- but because he doesn't take anti anxiety medication ( he wouldn't go to the GP unless he was DYING) and isn't under a mental health team ( provision where we live is so poor you can't get help even if you are suicidal) that he is fine - he attended CAMHS for 10 years and in his discharge letter is stated a referral to Adult mental health services wasn't really appropriate because his condition was life long and intervention wouldn't cure him so we have NO reports either - thanks for the information on this thread- we are currently awaiting a response to our MR request - and I am willing to go to tribunal if necessary- the rubbish in their report made me feel physically sick - the assessor stated he couldn't wouldn't use a conventional cooker to prepare a meal but he could use a microwave ( he said he could if necessary- even though the last time he did was 2 years ago) and one of descriptors fitted that scenario and would have awarded him 2 points - but she said he needed no help at all - I've pointed out the inconsistencies in her report and the subsequent award - but I'm not hopeful

CakeCrusader

kazzah wrote: »

=OMG- you have LITERALLY just quoted almost verbatim the decision for my sons PIP refusal ( he has ASD /Anxiety) he sat with his head phones on and could barely speak at his assessment- but because he doesn't take anti anxiety medication ( he wouldn't go to the GP unless he was DYING) and isn't under a mental health team ( provision where we live is so poor you can't get help even if you are suicidal) that he is fine - he attended CAMHS for 10 years and in his discharge letter is stated a referral to Adult mental health services wasn't really appropriate because his condition was life long and intervention wouldn't cure him so we have NO reports either - thanks for the information on this thread- we are currently awaiting a response to our MR request - and I am willing to go to tribunal if necessary- the rubbish in their report made me feel physically sick - the assessor stated he couldn't wouldn't use a conventional cooker to prepare a meal but he could use a microwave ( he said he could if necessary- even though the last time he did was 2 years ago) and one of descriptors fitted that scenario and would have awarded him 2 points - but she said he needed no help at all - I've pointed out the inconsistencies in her report and the subsequent award - but I'm not hopeful

Goodness, I'm sorry. I really hope that some of the information helps you. It's barbaric that they can people who are vulnerable through this. I've been trying to teach mine how to use the microwave for about a year. It's slow going.

CakeCrusader

Alice_Holt wrote: »

That sounds very familiar. The usual "reasons" for having to justify a nonsensical assessment.

Any tribunal would see a clear case for support with social engagement from the above. It is important that your son attends the hearing. Not so much to put the forward the argument himself (your submission will have done that for him), but so the panel can see him and get an understanding of his condition. You can put a para in the submission to explain his anxiety about attending, his difficulty in explaining / understanding, and request that with the permission of the panel you are allowed (having asked them first) to help him answer fully, and clarify any points together, and to help him remain as calm as possible.

IMO Panels are very used to dealing with very anxious and upset claimants , so do their very best to create an environment where the claimant feels able to explain fully.
It may help to explain to him that the panel are there to see if the decision the DWP made was right or wrong. To decide this, they need his help to explain about his day-to-day life. He is not under examination - the DWP decision maker is. But the panel will need information from him- he just has to tell them about a normal day, and answer any questions as best he can.

Don't be too concerned with quoting case law. However, it would be worth looking at a copy of the Disability Rights Handbook at your local library, and any relevant CPAG publications.
The Benefits & Work site has a very good guide to PIP appeals - may be worth the c.£20 membership fee to access it.

You've been really, really helpful, thank you so much!! :A I'm a firm believer in passing help on to others who need it so I will absolutely do this.

Alice_Holt

kazzah wrote: »

OMG- you have LITERALLY just quoted almost verbatim the decision for my sons PIP...

An example of the ubiquitous ATOS / Capita / Maximus / IAS cut and paste.

Unfortunately some claimants fall for this nonsensical verbiage (or are to stressed to appeal), and don't get beyond the MR stage.

Whereas those who do -
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/most-dwp-benefits-cases-which-reach-court-are-based-on-bad

Wouldn't it be nice if some pressure was exerted on our politicians, to ensure that the costs of a successful appeal is passed onto ATOS etc and the DWP rather than sit with the Tribunal Service, charities aiding the claimant, and the claimant themselves.
If there were heavy financial consequences for ATOS / DWP for badly flawed decisions, the system might just improve.
Just think if, say a Citizens Advice office, received a penalty payment from the DWP for successful appeals it had represented at. It would improve CAB resources and enable them to help many more people. But I'm not holding my breath.

CakeCrusader

A law centre (based in London) had to close down very recently due to funding, a penalty payment for each PIP claimant they supported may have kept them afloat so it's a very good idea (and should act as an incentive for ATOS/Capita/DWP to get it right, although they do spend far more money trying to defend their actions then they would if they had have paid people the right benefits). Twitter's useful, I imagine there's quite a few people on there who would help.

minimad1970

My report said that I was calm during the assessment and coped well, no mention of me vomiting in her waste bin half way through!!

CakeCrusader

minimad1970 wrote: »

My report said that I was calm during the assessment and coped well, no mention of me vomiting in her waste bin half way through!!

I'm not sure some of these assessors are on the same planet.

kazzah

Alice Holt
thank you so much for sharing your expertise and offering real help - as cake crusader has rightly stated - your support has given me hope and I hope others the same hope
Minimad1970 - how horrible for you - I do wonder how these people sleep at night- I know they don't make the decisions - but they don't record things accurately or honestly either.

minimad1970

kazzah wrote: »

Alice Holt
thank you so much for sharing your expertise and offering real help - as cake crusader has rightly stated - your support has given me hope and I hope others the same hope
Minimad1970 - how horrible for you - I do wonder how these people sleep at night- I know they don't make the decisions - but they don't record things accurately or honestly either.

It's not right that they're allowed to get away with it.

CakeCrusader

I've just received the documents from the DWP. Apparently because he can raise his arms and bend over he's able to cook a meal (totally ignored any anxiety here) and shower (also ignored any anxiety, motivation and safety issues). Because he caught the bus to the assessment centre he can plan a journey (even though I'd told the assessor that I'd planned the journey and had made sure he got there), because his pincer grip he's OK he's able to not feel pain when he fastens buttons and he's able to tie shoe laces. Because he turned up (with me) he doesn't need support when he goes out, and because he has good insight, working memory and cognition he doesn't need anyone to remind him to take his medication. They also said he was able to walk 200 meters because he could walk 10 meters carrying a bag (not quite the same, really). I'm not sure if we're on the same planet. They've said that this assessment 'superseds' the previous one, even though the problems are pretty much exactly the same, they've just awarded very different scores for the same things, which they have tried to justify very, very oddly. Is this normal?