Starbucks - Manchester (Trafford Centre) - Civil Enforcement Ltd

barrettefc

The first letter and the appeal rejection letter was addressed to my partner who is the registered keeper of the car.


I have images of the letters but have blanked out any details that would identify my partner or the case. Am I able to post them here? When I try and post them it asks for a link to the image?

Redx

redacted images can be hosted on imgur or tinypic and linked by pasting their url into your reply

this site does not allow uploaded files, so you cannot host them on MSE, that is what an upload site is for

ensure all personal info is redacted

what concerns us is the appeal done by the in law , who should not have been involved , legally its got nothing to do with them , good samaritan or not

NeilCr

The most important things at the moment are your partner and your baby.

I know I won't be hugely popular for this but I would be considering paying (and I know all the reasons why one shouldn't) to ease the stress on my partner. I suspect that it's unlikely that there is a quick and easy solution to this so that's worth taking into account

Having said that I'd still be trying for a landowner cancellation.

Everyone is spot on about the bailiffs

barrettefc

I hope these images work...

PCN First Letter:
https://imgur.com/OmGETx5

Appeal Rejection Letter:
https://imgur.com/qiF5Pa4

Redx

yes the images work , so if the keeper is fighting this , then the keeper (the person named on the pcn and rejection) needs to draft a popla appeal , save it as a pdf and load it to the popla website after choosing OTHER on their website , using that redacted out popla reference on the second one (the rejection letter)

their pcn is for an overstay due to exceeding the usual 90 minutes on the signs , its the same at KFC in Hyde too (but they are poor signs usually)

its either pay up in full or fight

nothing to do with any bailiffs due to not having been to court

barrettefc

This is the sign before entering the car park incase it helps with any argument?

https://imgur.com/izvVyrb


My partner is going to the car park within the next hour on her way home from work to take a picture of the signage in the car park itself.


Should I complain to the CEO of Starbucks and the landowner aswell as appealing to POPLA?


Are there draft templates which I can edit to send to Starbucks and the landowner?

Redx

yes you should do those complaints asap and do not miss the 32 day window for popla either (if you are fighting this on no landowner authority and poor and inadequate signage etc)

check the STICKY thread by crabman for the Successful Complaints thread etc


here is a link to a similar one in Hyde by CEL during daylight hours (its not well lit at night), note the small font for the £100 warning

https://mega.nz/#!BssVBaRY!2JOUEPAuv7yXkuBmwcAU_-fT8fMG85mkaYXOHCTRyz8

barrettefc

Thank you Redx for your help so far.


Here is the sign inside the car park of Starbucks:


https://imgur.com/ekAMoIq


Do we still have a case to appeal going off the wording on that sign or are we fighting a losing battle?

Redx

so its like the KFC one I posted earlier

note the small font and small £100 in comparison to the large font about the maximum stay

I cannot tell you what your chances are, all you can do is try a popla appeal based on the usual complaints of poor and inadequate signage , no landowner authority , and POFA or BPA CoP failures etc

assuming that the first NTK that arrived in the post met POFA requirements, then outing the driver is irrelevant (if the driver was outed that is, by the in law)

perhaps the good lady has learned some lessons here in checking signage and not overstaying in future, possibly needing to extend any stay or authorise a stay on car parks , in pubs and restaurants and bars, supermarkets , hospitals , doctors surgeries etc ?

they do not teach you these things on driving lessons and tests , but these par@sites are everywhere , all supermarkets for example , its easy to get caught out because they deliberately set traps for the unwary, infirm , disabled etc

had the alleged overstay been say 20 minutes its possible to argue 10 minutes to park up and read the signs and over ten minutes to depart

but the CEL signs do state maximum stay 90 minutes in large font on both your sign and on mine , its the punishments and £100 that are very small, meaning the driver is unaware of the punishments , this £100 maximum has been around for about a decade so you cannot objest to it , especially since the BEAVIS case a few years ago which was £85 , where he lost 3 times


a steep learning curve for you and all your family, whereas the rest of us learned all this several years ago and counting


it wont change until the new law brings in the new CoP by the MHCLG

barrettefc

Thanks Redx, I'm starting to think it might just be less hassle to pay the £60 fine and use it as a learning curve as you say to always check parking signage.


As a young family with a newborn on the way in just under 4 weeks it's going to be alot of stress and with the possibility of POPLA still rejecting our appeal the thought of the fine going upto £100 puts an even bigger strain on our budget as we come to terms with the financial burden of having a newborn baby.