Electric Companies Hike Prices after motorists switch to EV

ToxicWomble

Don’t forget the government will be also be losing millions (billions) in fuel duty.
Expect them to tax electricity to compensate

Car_54

ToxicWomble wrote: »

Don’t forget the government will be also be losing millions (billions) in fuel duty.
Expect them to tax electricity to compensate

Taxing just the electricity used by cars would be difficult and expensive to implement, if even possible. It would also be likely to slow down the uptake of EVs. Taxing all electricity (more than at present) would be unpopular.
Much easier and better to increase VAT or income tax.

DrEskimo

Car_54 wrote: »

Taxing just the electricity used by cars would be difficult and expensive to implement, if even possible. It would also be likely to slow down the uptake of EVs. Taxing all electricity (more than at present) would be unpopular.
Much easier and better to increase VAT or income tax.

Given they are incentivising EV's for air quality measures (in order to avoid big fines), it makes more sense that they will be increasing the VED on ICE just as much, if not more, than EV's. So relatively speaking, EV's would still work out cheaper.
The OP seems to have framed their question as though the costs associated with ICE are in a vacuum, and won't see changes over the coming decades too...

I do wonder whether a tax based on the miles you drive might be introduced.

sevenhills

With 70%+ tax on vehicle fuel, there needs to be a similar tax on electricity used for vehicles.
I would favour a personal carbon allowance, we don't want little old ladies paying a 70% tax on their domestic fuel.



https://www.carbontrust.com/resources/reports/footprinting/personal-carbon-allowances-white-paper/

almillar

What is to stop Electric Companies from hiking prices of kwh when they know a car is being charged

They don't know when a car is being charged.

or in general, hike the prices anyway knowing that their customers will have no option but to pay it.

We already have no option but to pay it, unless you're a person that doesn't use electricity.
There's a market for electricity, you choose whatever provider suits you.
There's a market for petrol - same applies.
There will still be a market for electricity if you buy an electric car. There's also a market for charging it when you're out and about. Charging rapidly, in public, will cost more than at home, and it'll remain this way.

The EV sales tricks speak of how much you are saving - sure NOW - but when there are 5 million electric cars on the road the electric providers can simply creep prices up so that anyone who has switched is not saving money on fuel hardly at all.

'Sales tricks'. They're not tricks. Sure, don't believe salesmen, but an EV is far cheaper per mile than a petrol/diesel one. Lots of the cost of petrol/diesel you buy is actually tax, whereas charging at home will be 5%(?) tax. That certainly skews the figures. Is the government cheating us?
The electricty providers are tightly regulated, and they cannot 'creep up prices' as they please. Having said that, electricity prices will continue to rise, because that's just inflation.

2) Smart meters aren't about accurate bills based on instant readings, the aim is 'Time of Day/Use' pricing.

You say this like it's a bad thing. Electricity IS more expensive during the day, than it is at night. If you're not paying more for it, via Economy 7 or whatever, you're not paying the true price for the time of day.

So when lots of people are charging smart cars at night, when we have no solar input to the grid, the cost per kwh will shoot up over that time.

Solar makes up a small part of the grid's capacity. Wind blows at night. And smoothing out demand throughout the day is the aim to make it cheaper for everyone. Running power stations constantly is efficient. Switching them on and off is ineffient (and therefore expensive).

What stops the oil companies and petrol retailers charging us as much as they want now?

Precisely. Worrying about what the electric companies will do whilst the oil companies have us by the you-know-what is a bit paranoid, IMO. 'Electricity' isn't a resource that will run out. Oil certainly is. The price of oil will only go one way with the 'supply' part of supply and demand.

almillar

Don’t forget the government will be also be losing millions (billions) in fuel duty.

How much do they spend treating, for example, asthma, in the UK? Remember to deduct that from your figures, and also, what price do you put on health?!

weeowens

facade wrote: »

So when lots of people are charging smart cars at night, when we have no solar input to the grid, the cost per kwh will shoot up over that time.
I read somewhere that they were thinking of 20 minute pricing blocks.

Solar is just a small part of the output.
14% at the moment: https://www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk/

Seems that nuclear is the constant in the overall output.

shinytop

almillar wrote: »

How much do they spend treating, for example, asthma, in the UK? Remember to deduct that from your figures, and also, what price do you put on health?!

About £130bn per year; that's what the NHS costs. And fuel duty brings in about £28bn. Not sure about asthma but not a lot in the scale of things.

I don't think we can really afford to lose too much fuel duty so a way will be found to collect that £28bn.

Joe_Horner

DrEskimo wrote: »

Using average peak electricity costs of £0.15/kWh, the typical cost per mile of an ICE is 14p, whilst it's just 4p for an EV. So electricity would have to increase by 3.5X. Assuming of course there are no increases in fuel prices.....a completely unrealistic assumption...

To compare fairly you need to use the untaxed price of petrol since your'e comparing with an untaxed price for electricity.

At £1.28 per litre, 21.3 pence is VAT and 57.95 pence is fuel duty. So the "real" cost of the petrol is 49 pence per litre and the (untaxed) cost per mile, based on your 14p average, is 14*49/128 = 5.3 pence per mile.

As people switch to electric vehicles the government may not replace the "lost" tax (fuel duty + VAT + VED) by directly adding it to electricity prices or upping the VED on the cars, they will replace it so the true cost will NOT reduce, it'll just be hidden elsewhere by sleight of hand.

And, when taxes get hidden they usually get increased at the same time....

silverwhistle

facade wrote: »

So when lots of people are charging smart cars at night, when we have no solar input to the grid, the cost per kwh will shoot up over that time.

I see others have already pointed out that there's a fair bit of wind that doesn't need the sun to shine to produce power.. Have a look at a user on these forums called Zarch who is investigating how time of day tariffs can be used to best effect by consumers, particularly those with EVs.



As for the loss of revenue for the government; I suspect that will be replaced by an annual mileage charge. Which is actually very fair and will reflect the costs that individuals impose on the infrastructure/environment. It won't impact the rich - such things never do - but in those circumstances it would encourage incrementally lower mileage by many of us. I've often been appalled by the short distances some people drive. Today I cycled into my village, I've been known to drive very occasionally or more often walk, but it's the accumulation of such journeys that will make a difference, particularly in cities.