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SVS Securities - shut down?
Options
Comments
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adeel26 said:Is any body using X-O here. I just opened an account with them. How long does it take to transfer the money using in account transfer option?0
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Fully accepted masonic. And that may explain how they make money, and answers my question
BUT there should be to no detriment to you. Why? See the Best Execution rules below with my emphasis.
So to put bluntly, why should I care where my stock is bought or sold, as long as I get the 'best' price?
As a PS, I only buy/sell at best XO. My reading of thie T&C s is that this is not really encouraged/liked by them. I wonder why?
[e.g. they say Market (At Best) Order You place an Order to execute your transaction at the best possible price. This may be necessary if you want your Order to be executed in any event. However, certainly with less liquid products, you may receive a worse price than what you anticipated. We therefore strongly advise you to use this Order type with care.]
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2. Best execution As an investment firm, DEGIRO has a legal obligation to ensure that Orders are executed on the basis of best execution. For this purpose, DEGIRO makes use of its below described Order Execution Policy or the order execution policy of third party brokers. On the Website DEGIRO shows for which exchanges Orders are sent ‘Direct to market'. Orders in relation to Financial Instruments for which such exchange is the reference exchange, will be send to that exchange. DEGIRO will send such Orders directly, using its own membership of the exchange or the membership of another broker, or send these Orders to another broker with the instruction to execute the Orders on the specified exchange. Orders that are sent 'Direct to market', will be executed by DEGIRO in accordance with the DEGIRO Order Execution Policy. DEGIRO can also send Orders to a third party broker, to be executed under the order execution policy of that third party broker. DEGIRO will in such case require from such third party broker, that the order execution policy of the third party broker, complies with the best execution requirements that apply to DEGIRO. DEGIRO will on a regular basis check the order execution policy of the third party and compliance therewith by the third party broker. DEGIRO will also on a regular basis monitor the quality of execution by the third party broker and disclose the results hereof on the Website. On a yearly basis, DEGIRO will reconsider its policy with regard to the use of third party brokers as here described. The third party brokers will make their own selection of execution venues, based upon their own preferences and selection criteria. DEGIRO will on a regularly basis monitor the execution venues used by the third party brokers. Usually, a third party broker will make use of various places of execution, such as regulated markets, MTFs, OTFs, SIs, market makers, liquidity providers, investment institutions and others. You agree and expressly instruct that the third party brokers may execute orders outside the trading venues regulated market, MTF and OTF. For a short description of the consequences hereof, you are referred to the Order Execution Policy below. Investment Services Information DEGIRO B.V. is registered as an investment firm with the Netherlands Authority for the Financial Markets (AFM). 7/910 DEGIRO will not receive third party payments in any form from the third party brokers that it makes use of. At this moment, DEGIRO uses Morgan Stanley as third party broker as described above. On the Website, DEGIRO shows for which exchanges, Orders are sent to ‘Morgan Stanley SOR'. DEGIRO will send Orders in relation to Financial Instruments for which such exchange is the reference exchange, to Morgan Stanley, to be executed by Morgan Stanley using the order execution policy of Morgan Stanley. DEGIRO has ensured that the order execution policy of Morgan Stanley, enables DEGIRO to comply with the best execution requirements applicableto DEGIRO. DEGIRO will regularly monitor the order execution policy of Morgan Stanley. DEGIRO will on an annual basis, for each class of Financial Instruments for which Orders are executed in this way, investigate the quality of execution obtained from Morgan Stanley. The applicable information will be available on the Website.0 -
johnburman said:Fully accepted masonic. And that may explain how they make money, and answers my question
BUT there should be to no detriment to you. Why? See the Best Execution rules below with my emphasis.
So to put bluntly, why should I care where my stock is bought or sold, as long as I get the 'best' price?
As a PS, I only buy/sell at best XO. My reading of thie T&C s is that this is not really encouraged/liked by them. I wonder why?
[e.g. they say Market (At Best) Order You place an Order to execute your transaction at the best possible price. This may be necessary if you want your Order to be executed in any event. However, certainly with less liquid products, you may receive a worse price than what you anticipated. We therefore strongly advise you to use this Order type with care.]
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masonic thanks. When doing XO transactions at best I check with the "national exchange" [LSE for me only] and the timing of the transaction there is the same as the deal. so unless it is miliseconds, no delay.
The point is, I think, for a XO only client, buying at best, what we need is a sensible XO platform, CHEAP transparant charges, and a stable compnay regulated by the FCA or overseas regulator who is sensible, and stricter than the FCA and consumer focussed. So who have we got:
De GIRO
Trading 212 (UK and Bulgarian regulated)
Fineco (Italian regulator)
or in the UK only
X-O
iWeb
Share Shop
Trading 212 looks the best. Awful website, but no commisison or extra hidden charges (no hidden FX charges they say), and dual regulation with FSCS cover. Its not a newcomer to the scene and does do basis XO transactions, and if you want to do CFDs or FX they do that too.0 -
johnburman said:Share ShopDo you mean The Share Centre? If so, that's soon to be integrated into Interactive Investor.johnburman said:Trading 212 looks the best. Awful website, but no commisison or extra hidden charges (no hidden FX charges they say), and dual regulation with FSCS cover. Its not a newcomer to the scene and does do basis XO transactions, and if you want to do CFDs or FX they do that too.0
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This site is now becoming educational and i thank you two for that.
Not sure if i am reading correctly but i can not deal with Degiro without setting a limit ( which i prefer in most cases anyhow when i use Iweb , bell or jarvis )
I would not have fancied Trading 212 so thanks for that , lets discus more of them .
Unlike myself a self thought plumber ( not the Plumbing had a good apprenticeship , and investing is a much harder way to earn a few bob )
But i enjoy the challenge .
Do you chaps work in the industry as your knowledge is deep.0 -
johnburman said:manorhouse said:
Trading 212 looks the best. Awful website, but no commisison or extra hidden charges (no hidden FX charges they say), and dual regulation with FSCS cover. Its not a newcomer to the scene and does do basis XO transactions, and if you want to do CFDs or FX they do that too.I would not have fancied Trading 212 so thanks for that , lets discus more of them .
You say it's not a newcomer to the scene but it is a relative spring chicken, and the 'basic execution only transactions' are not the historic core of its revenue - the CFDs are (and historically they were big on FX trading too, and the UK holding company also had a Cyprus entity before restructure/disposal). They have only been doing straight (no margin allowed) execution only share purchases for a couple of years as you can see from old threads on here. Its UK operations only generated £4m of transaction income for the last reported financial year while the other £50m came from the Bulgarian part of the group where the market exposure sits, with the UK part acting as agent on a matched principal basis. Overall they are not a massive operation with just £20m of client cash held at Dec '18.
When you look at the annual reports it seems relatively clear that you shouldn't think of them as a group that does basic XO transactions and also happens to do CFDs if you want it - it's more the other way round. Though you can get a non-leveraged straight XO account or ISA if you want it.
To save rehashing some of my comments from other threads, here's a five-month old post of mine that might be of interest to you
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76515561#Comment_76515561
You've already addressed the 'best execution' part above, but as you move on to 'life after SVS', presumably it's not just about saving money but also about finding a well established and stable platform that won't be going bust and leaving your assets in limbo for another year or so while they go through administration. When you look at Trading 212, their USP is to not charge you any money for commission on the trades they place for you, and not to charge you an annual fee for holding your assets which you're trading even if you are doing it in an ISA wrapper. No doubt that's a good tool for customer acquisition, to have a mobile-led product that appears free to use. But if you don't want it to 'do an SVS', you should ask yourself how sustainable it is to run that sort of a business.at that sort of price.
Really, the business of letting you trade without paying for it, if they're not skimming between the buys and sell prices, is only possible where it is bankrolled by another successful part of the business and they are allowing execution-only trading as a loss leader to get you in the door and sell you on that other profitable part of the business, the margined CFD side. If their profits and client money held grew there in recent years due to favourable market conditions, that's something that could reverse in unfavourable conditions, and by promising that their customers can't lose more than they deposit, they take risk onto their own balance sheet if they can't close out a losing position in extreme markets.
Some of the other 'key features' of their accounts may not be of interest to you, such as allowing fractional share ownership so they can buy a share of Amazon at $2400 and let their customers just invest in a $100 piece of that share, which might be handy if the customer only has a few thousand pounds to invest and wanted a broad portfolio. You might not use that at all because you want to deal in whole units like a normal person. But, as the focus within this thread is pretty much 'wow, it's an amazing amount of hassle when a platform goes into administration', think how much hassle an administration scenario would be for a platform where each Amazon share held by the Bulgarian nominee company is beneficially owned by seven individuals from UK, Germany and Spain, and the special administrator of the Bulgarian entity is trying to move the assets over cleanly to one new broker platform, but finding that mostly the platforms competing for the business don't handle 'fractional shares'.
I am sure Trading212 is fine for investing small amounts of cash into the markets via an app for a bit of fun. I have a couple of thousand with eToro to just play about with like that. And a lot of novice investors only want to invest small amounts because that's all they have - they want to try stockpicking and they can't afford to do it on a real platform because a real platform costs more than a pound per trade and they only have £50 a month to invest. But for investing real sizeable amounts that you would miss if you lost them or the business was disrupted for a lengthy period of administration? No way.
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Do the posters looking at ultra-cheap platforms do a huge volume of trades? Or is it just a habit of trying to cut costs wherever possible?I don't trade very much. When I figure out what I'm paying for platforms per year (in dealing commissions + holding charges + anything else), as a percentage of total value of my investments, it's miniscule. Yes, if I could cut it further, without any serious downside, why not? But if there are real downsides, in terms of stability of the platforms used, it doesn't make much sense.OK, perhaps other people trade more often than me. However, if they do, doesn't that make it even worse for them, than it would be for me, to be unable to trade some of their investments for an extended period?3
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Dear client,
This up fro DEGIRO THIS MORNING .
The point of posting is SVS were not as careful often a broker would ring and advised very risky aim investments .
I always thought just because they had bought in principle at a secondary placing and just wanted to shift .
( At a profit )
Degiro vs Svs ? UK vs Holland ???New appropriateness tests for options and futures
In accordance with DEGIRO’s product governance, we are introducing new appropriateness tests for options and futures. Additionally, we are also adding new appropriateness tests for Structured Products. These tests are in place to verify whether the relevant products are appropriate for you to trade based on your level of knowledge in these products. You can find all the new tests on the “Product Settings” page under “Settings” in the trading platform.
From the 4th of May onwards, you will be required to have passed the relevant appropriateness test if you want to trade a specific product group. If you are trading options, futures or structured products regularly, please take the time to complete the relevant test before 4th May. For every test, you have a set of 5 questions where you have to answer 4 answers correctly to pass the test. After the 4th of May, you will not be able to open new positions in options, futures or structured products without having passed the test for the corresponding product group. You will still be able to close existing positions in those product groups, even without having passed a test.
Kind regards,
DEGIRO0 -
manorhouse said:The point of posting is SVS were not as careful often a broker would ring and advised very risky aim investments .I always thought just because they had bought in principle at a secondary placing and just wanted to shift .
( At a profit )
Degiro vs Svs ? UK vs Holland ???
UK guidance is here:
https://www.handbook.fca.org.uk/handbook/COBS/10/2.html
However, whether a product type is appropriate for an individual (e.g. you have enough understanding of what a share is and what a share price is, to be allowed to buy shares) is quite different from calling you up and saying we have a truckload of these halfpenny AIM shares which might rocket, I'm sure you don't want to miss out, how many can I put you down for? But if you say you want to get bulletins on what new IPOs are available, it's fine for them to email or call you when one comes up.
Separately from the 'appropriateness' rules for different product types, when it comes to promoting and recommending stuff or even allowing the purchase of it on a public website, there are a whole bunch of rules about investments which are subject to restrictions on retail distribution (e.g. non-mainstream pooled investments or non-readily realisable securities or speculative illiquid securities and so on) where financial promotions are not allowed.
The FCA rules are easy to find in plain English so you can find out what the rules are but it doesn't mean that UK operators breaking the rules from time to time (or routinely) don't exist - they may exist and be under investigation or they may exist but the FCA doesn't know they need to be investigated. Likewise you can expect that other countries have companies breaking the rules too, but the difference is that the rules in those countries might not be so obvious to you as they are not always easy to find in plain English, and if you want to complain or be compensated for a problem, being a non-local and not speaking the native language won't help your position.
For what it's worth, the rules in the Netherlands for what firms are supposed to do when running a brokerage business are broadly consistent with what the UK rules are - that's why 'passporting' of regulatory permissions around the EU is allowed and customers can choose to buy their services from service providers across EU internal borders. It is feasible that this could change in the longer term when the UK has extricated itself more fully from the EU, because although we want EU business, maybe we won't want it enough to prioritise it over other political or economic ambitions.
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