County Court Claim

mercuteio

KeithP wrote: »

You would be wise to file your Cost Schedule with the court and serve it on the Claimant a few days before the hearing - the earlier the better.

Thanks KeithP - is this a simple case of turning up at the Court and asking for it to be added to the file? Following that, I can email it to VCS.

mercuteio

Ok, I've amended my proposed email as follows. The plan, as it stands (unless any of you disagree) is to print my Schedule of Costs for the hearing and turn up at the court tomorrow morning to request that it's added to the file. Thereafter, I will then attach it to the following email to VCS. Sound sensible?

As per my post #120 (p6), my questions regarding whether both my proposed schedule of costs for the hearing, and my proposed settlement costs are likely to be deemed reasonable by a judge still stand - would you mind having a look at the email below and letting me know whether or not you think what I'm proposing is reasonable?

Many thanks, once again. I've highlighted the amended bits in red.



Dear Sir,

Re: Claim X

Without predudice save as to costs.

Today I have received your letter offering settlement of the claim above for a payment of £125, and given the proximity to the court hearing date, have chosen to reply by email rather than postal letter, to ensure that this is received before the court hearing. By now, you will have seen the Defence Statement, Witness Statement and Exhibits, and it will be clear that there was no contractual agreement in place between Vehicle Control Services Ltd and myself.

Whilst the principle of settlement is acceptable to me, the terms that you have set are not. It has taken considerable time to prepare the Defence Statement, Witness Statement and Exhibits, as well as significant printing charges. Additionally, Vehicle Control Services Ltd is continuing to pursue a separate court claim against me with substantially identical Particulars of Claim at the same time (Claim Y), which I have highlighted to the Court.

Given that you have chosen to proceed to the Small Claims Track not once, but twice, for incidents where there was no contractual agreement or other connection between the litigants, I would be happy to accept a settlement under the following terms:

1) Vehicle Control Services Ltd agrees to drop both claims against me in their entirety (Claims X and Y) and ceases to pursue either of these any further

2) Vehicle Control Services Ltd pays settlement costs to me of £150 to account for the considerable time and expense involved in defending these two meritless claims. This is adherent to the following Schedule of Costs for settlement:

- Research, preparation and drafting of documents for Claim X (3 hours at Litigant in Person rate of £19 per hour) £57.00

- Research, preparation and drafting of documents for Claim Y (3 hours at Litigant in Person rate of £19 per hour) £57.00

- Stationery, printing, photocopying and postage for Claim X £20.00

- Stationery, printing and photocopying for Claim Y £16.00

Total costs of settlement £150

3) Vehicle Control Services Ltd agrees not to share my data with any other individual, company or organisation

4) Vehicle Control Services Ltd discards all data relating to me on its own systems, such that no further contact can be made between Vehicle Control Services Ltd and myself

Should you wish to accept these terms, please confirm this both by email and letter, and address a cheque for £150 to ***. If you do not accept this offer, I will be happy to demonstrate my argument in Court, and will meet you there. For your records, I have attached the Schedule of Costs for my attendance at the Hearing, which amounts to £186.

Yours faithfully,
***

mercuteio

Just spoken with the court. They're happy for me to email my schedule of costs to them now, thank goodness. In fact, they didn't seem to think it was much of a problem, and just said "yeah, sure, as long as it's less than 25 pages we'll print it and add it to the file now for you". Marvellous!

Here are a couple of questions that I posted earlier - would anyone mind letting me know their thoughts on this before I start sending in my costs schedule to both the court and the claimant?

mercuteio wrote: »

Ok, I've just got up to speed on costs schedules. Having now calculated this according to CM's link from the Newbies thread, the costs schedule that I plan to bring to court looks as follows:

Ordinary Costs

Loss of earnings/leave, incurred through attendance at Court **/**/**** £95.00

Return mileage from home address to Court (20 miles x £0.45) £9.00

Parking near Court £5.00

Sub-total £109.00


Further costs for Claimant's unreasonable behaviour, pursuant to Civil Procedure Rule 27.14(2)(g)

Research, preparation and drafting of documents (3 hours at Litigant in Person rate of £19 per hour) £57.00

Stationery, printing, photocopying and postage: £20.00

Sub-total £77.00


£186.00 TOTAL COSTS CLAIMED

So, my questions are as follows:

[STRIKE]1) Should I have filed this with my witness statement and exhibits? Given that I did not, does that mean that this costs schedule will not be considered, or is it sensible to just turn up with it and ask for it to be considered if I win?[/STRIKE] (Answered by KeithP - thank-you!)

2) Does this actually seem reasonable? Umkomaas indicated that the costs are likely to amount to approximately £100, which I believe is based on the Ordinary Costs listed above (not including costs for the Claimant's unreasonable behaviour). However, Coupon-mad's costs schedule from the Newbies thread specifically adds £72 for unreasonable behaviour as listed above (I've added an extra £5 for printing, seeing as I included a load of photos and it genuinely cost me £10 per copy to print). I'm inclined to keep it as £186 unless you think that this will just make the judge think I'm being unreasonable, and thus dismiss my claim for costs.

3) Given that this adds up to £186, I am inclined to place my settlement costs at £150 based on the following costs schedule:

- Research, preparation and drafting of documents for Claim 1 (3 hours at Litigant in Person rate of £19 per hour) £57.00

- Research, preparation and drafting of documents for Claim 2 (3 hours at Litigant in Person rate of £19 per hour) £57.00

- Stationery, printing, photocopying and postage for Claim 1 £20.00

- Stationery, printing and photocopying for Claim 2 £16.00

Total costs of settlement £150

Does this seem like a reasonable course of action? Specifically, do you think a judge will deem it a reasonable course of action if they reject this settlement offer?

Many thanks, as always!

And here is the email I'm proposing to send to VCS

mercuteio wrote: »

I've highlighted the amended bits in red.

Dear Sir,

Re: Claim X

Without predudice save as to costs.

Today I have received your letter offering settlement of the claim above for a payment of £125, and given the proximity to the court hearing date, have chosen to reply by email rather than postal letter, to ensure that this is received before the court hearing. By now, you will have seen the Defence Statement, Witness Statement and Exhibits, and it will be clear that there was no contractual agreement in place between Vehicle Control Services Ltd and myself.

Whilst the principle of settlement is acceptable to me, the terms that you have set are not. It has taken considerable time to prepare the Defence Statement, Witness Statement and Exhibits, as well as significant printing charges. Additionally, Vehicle Control Services Ltd is continuing to pursue a separate court claim against me with substantially identical Particulars of Claim at the same time (Claim Y), which I have highlighted to the Court.

Given that you have chosen to proceed to the Small Claims Track not once, but twice, for incidents where there was no contractual agreement or other connection between the litigants, I would be happy to accept a settlement under the following terms:

1) Vehicle Control Services Ltd agrees to drop both claims against me in their entirety (Claims X and Y) and ceases to pursue either of these any further

2) Vehicle Control Services Ltd pays settlement costs to me of £150 to account for the considerable time and expense involved in defending these two meritless claims. This is adherent to the following Schedule of Costs for settlement:

- Research, preparation and drafting of documents for Claim X (3 hours at Litigant in Person rate of £19 per hour) £57.00

- Research, preparation and drafting of documents for Claim Y (3 hours at Litigant in Person rate of £19 per hour) £57.00

- Stationery, printing, photocopying and postage for Claim X £20.00

- Stationery, printing and photocopying for Claim Y £16.00

Total costs of settlement £150

3) Vehicle Control Services Ltd agrees not to share my data with any other individual, company or organisation

4) Vehicle Control Services Ltd discards all data relating to me on its own systems, such that no further contact can be made between Vehicle Control Services Ltd and myself

Should you wish to accept these terms, please confirm this both by email and letter, and address a cheque for £150 to ***. If you do not accept this offer, I will be happy to demonstrate my argument in Court, and will meet you there. For your records, I have attached the Schedule of Costs for my attendance at the Hearing, which amounts to £186.

Yours faithfully,
***

My biggest concern before sending this in is "will a judge see this as reasonable?". I've followed the costs schedule suggested by CM in the newbies thread, but I'm aware that this includes costs for unreasonable behaviour, which Umkomaas indicated may be higher than VCS will be expecting to pay (and therefore may influence whether or not they decide to settle at £150 for two separate claims).

Any thoughts? I'll be sending within the next hour or so, so if anyone has any thoughts I'll be happy to amend.

Thank-you all, as always.

Umkomaas

We really can't add anything further as to where either VCS or the Judge's tipping points will be.

Normally with VCS a pre-court offer a discontinuance will follow, they can do that at any point, with no reference to you, and you get nothing, other than a vacated court case. Pushing too hard on a drop hands offer might see them continue, might see them drop it, might see them pay you - who knows?

Some Judges will entertain additional costs, most don't. Ordinarily you need to argue a strong case for 'unreasonableness' on the part of the claimant. It's a pretty high bar.

I think you're asking too much of the forum to give you a firm steer in whatever direction. Ultimately it's your call, you're not going to go to prison because of what you're asking for, but as I've said previously, it's a game of Poker once you start getting into negotiations.

mercuteio

Umkomaas wrote: »

We really can't add anything further as to where either VCS or the Judge's tipping points will be.

Normally with VCS a pre-court offer a discontinuance will follow, they can do that at any point, with no reference to you, and you get nothing, other than a vacated court case. Pushing too hard on a drop hands offer might see them continue, might see them drop it, might see them pay you - who knows?

Some Judges will entertain additional costs, most don't. Ordinarily you need to argue a strong case for 'unreasonableness' on the part of the claimant. It's a pretty high bar.

I think you're asking too much of the forum to give you a firm steer in whatever direction. Ultimately it's your call, you're not going to go to prison because of what you're asking for, but as I said previously, it's a game of Poker once you start getting into negotiations.

Ok, that's very fair. Thanks for your thoughts. Will have a think and make a decision.

Thanks again.

beamerguy

You are giving them an easy way out which is reasonable. It is up to the judge to agree the costs and given the bad behaviour of VCS the judge may well treat VCS as being unreasonable.
VCS are on the records with the courts for their fake claims and should expect yet another spanking which they can ill afford.

They know that you know what you are talking about. They prey on people who are ignorant.

They will no doubt discontinue or face that spanking in court. Even so you can can still invoice them and if you wish, take them to court

mercuteio

beamerguy wrote: »

You are giving them an easy way out which is reasonable. It is up to the judge to agree the costs and given the bad behaviour of VCS the judge may well treat VCS as being unreasonable.
VCS are on the records with the courts for their fake claims and should expect yet another spanking which they can ill afford.

They know that you know what you are talking about. They prey on people who are ignorant.

They will no doubt discontinue or face that spanking in court. Even so you can can still invoice them and if you wish, take them to court

Thanks Beamerguy. Spent a while mulling it over, and decided that the best route would be to:

1) Remove the costs for unreasonable behaviour from my schedule of costs for the hearing, and instead keep it at £109 for loss of earnings, fuel and parking.

2) Send them a settlement offer which I set at £105. It's less than the loss they'll suffer at the hearing, and that doesn't take into account their fuel costs for getting there and back. So hopefully they'll see that it doesn't make sense for them to attend seeing as they're clearly very likely to lose.

Equally, a small part of me doesn't really mind attending court as most of why I've ended up doing this is to understand the experience of the small claims court. So if they decide they don't want to settle, that's also fine with me.

Many thanks to yourself and everyone who has helped so much so far.

mercuteio

Just a quick note to everyone to say thank-you so much for all of your help and advice to date. Court hearing is tomorrow. I'm just preparing now. I would not have got this far without your collective help, and I am so thankful to you all, whichever way this goes. If nothing else, I have more insight into the small claims track than I did before, and that in itself is empowering insight to have. I will let you know how things go.

Thank-you once again.

mercuteio

Question: I remember recently there being court rulings regarding Claims F0DP806M and F0DP201T which I think CM may have attended (Britannia v Mr C). I have referenced these in my witness statement, but at the time of writing no written evidence/photo of the court ruling was available. Ideally, I'd have some documented evidence to support that what I've said regarding these hearings is true. Does anyone know if this is now available?


Thanks.

mercuteio

So, interesting day. VCS sent a lawyer from my region, who it turned out seemed to be a nice chap for all intents and purposes. I insisted on not discussing the case with him, but while we were waiting we got onto life, Christmas plans etc, and I actually enjoyed chatting to him, which was not something I was expecting whatsoever.

Anyway, he told me that he had three VCS cases today, of which he’d just won the first because the Defendant didn’t turn up. VCS hadn’t furnished him with a copy of my Witness Statement or Exhibits, so he told me that he was going to push for an adjournment, to which I pointed out that I was going to push for the case to be heard. He told me that if he didn’t get an adjournment then he recognised that it was likely that he wouldn’t win today’s case. He also recognised that the chances of him getting an adjournment were limited given that I had proof of recorded delivery of all of my documentation to VCS’ offices.

As it turned out, the Judge decided to give him a copy of the Witness Statement and Exhibits and gave him an hour to get up to speed, so I saw him in one of the consultation rooms reading as quickly as possible.

When we got into the court room, the Judge said, firstly, that he recognised I was acting without representation, and commended me for the quality of the documents I had furnished the Court - a commendation that I duly pass on to this forum, so thank-you! He acknowledged that two cases had been put forward for essentially the same case, and agreed that these should be consolidated into a single hearing. He said that, given the quality and length of the Witness Statement, it was likely that the Claimant’s representative would need some time to digest these, so he decided it was best to adjourn to the date of the second hearing (which is yet to be decided) and consolidate both hearings at that time.

This was a little disappointing, as it gives them more time to prepare (although the Claimant’s lawyer did say that he could see where I was coming from, having seen my Witness Statement and noted that there were multiple conflicting signs within the same car park). I asked if it was possible to adjourn until this afternoon, giving the Claimant’s lawyer time to look at the documents throughout the morning, but the Judge said there wasn’t time today. If I’m honest, I have a suspicion that he was a very busy Judge who was actually quite happy to find that he could adjourn this case and get it off his list so that he could get on with the rest of his long list of cases for the day. I know this feeling, as I sometimes feel equivalently fortunate when I’m behind in clinic and someone doesn’t turn up.

I also asked if there was a possibility of a further adjournment next time if VCS once again don’t furnish their representative with the correct documents next time, to which the Judge said 'if I am presiding, then next time this will be concluded once and for all'. He wasn’t conclusive, however, when I asked if I’d be allowed to put in two separate costs schedules for the two days of work that I will have missed by then - he said I could advance this, but essentially said that this would be decided at the next hearing.

I noted that the Claimant’s lawyer said that he was going to be feeding back to VCS that they had stuffed him today, and will be pointing out that they need to pay attention to the documents that I have sent (when I asked him if it was him I’d see again next time he said 'it could be, although I hope not!'). Sadly this means that they may pay more attention next time, and have time to prepare. This adds to the fact that they must already be paying a little attention - I suspect that the reason they offered to settle initially was after noticing that one of my exhibits was in fact one of their own photographs from their exhibit pack, which actually demonstrates the exact problem of conflicting signs within the same car park . . . that photo sort of did part of my job for me! The rest of their witness statement for the second case, which turned up a couple of days ago, looks pretty similar to the first case on casual skimming, but I noted that this photo seems to have mysteriously disappeared in their exhibits, so they must have noticed.

I still think they don’t have a leg to stand on, and I’m much more confident now that they’re extremely likely to lose when the consolidated hearing of the two cases goes ahead, but I would have preferred it to be over and done with today. I’m also a little concerned that the Judge said 'how long do you think it will take?' to the Claimant’s lawyer (and to myself as well, although I didn’t really know what he was referring to at that time, so didn’t really contribute an answer), to which the Claimant’s lawyer said 'about an hour and a half'. So the Judge responded with 'ok, I’ll book in about two hours for both cases to be heard'. It was only at that point that I realised he was asking how long we think it will take for the two cases to be discussed, given the detail in the Witness Statement. In the context of the discussion at the time, I actually thought he was considering how long it will take for the case to come to court, rather than how long the hearing should actually take.

So I guess it won’t be a 15-minute in-and-out case, but is going to be a bit of a drawn out affair. Hopefully it won’t be too high-pressured. Now I need to get cracking with the second Witness Statement and costs schedule.

Thanks a lot to all of you so far. Let’s see how things go. In the meantime, have a lovely Christmas, and I’ll catch you as we head into the New Year.

Warmest regards, and all the best to yourselves and your families for Christmas and the New Year.