Huge family financial mess

Pollycat

MoneySeeker1 wrote: »

Hopefully mother will never need any money to pay for care from anywhere (either herself or the State) but this is certainly a valid concern.

There is the possibility she might be required to pay for care and then the question would arise if the Government went to grab her savings and/or house equity and it was sitting in your sisters pockets that the Government might treat her as if she still had the money. I'm not quite sure what would happen then and perhaps someone else could say what is likely.

I think (but don't quote me on it) that anything deemed given away within 7 years before the Government started wanting to grab for care costs would be deemed still with your mother (even if it wasn't). So, if you put a stop to the sisters grabbing post-haste you might be in time for there to be at least 7 more years before any question arose of the Government wanting some for care costs.

I don't think the '7 years' you mention is valid.

But Deprivation of Capital is something the OP should be aware of.

Although if it was me, the fact that a sibling of mine was living rent free, free-loading off our parent, making that parent fearful of saying anything and had misappropriated £15k would be forefront in my mind.

Jackmydad

Sister is a taker. (Don't know why that was censored not a swear word)
If it was me in the OPs position I'd do whatever was needed to stop this happening.
Not from self interest, but because mum is going to be left without anything at this rate.
If I fell out with my sister over it, I'm sorry to say that I wouldn't shed many tears over it. As already said, once mum's money is gone, she'll be looking for the next source of support. Better that she already knows there's no chance with the OP.

POPPYOSCAR

How on earth do you know about your sister's financial affairs?

paddy's_mum

POPPYOSCAR wrote: »

How on earth do you know about your sister's financial affairs?

Presumably from the POAs held by the OP for both the Mum and the late Dad, plus what Mum has already revealed.

It sounds too as though Sister has hardly been keeping her dealings confidential and private and, living in Mum's house, much can be innocently observed, heard or assessed.

Even if OP had been snooping (which I am not suggesting) she needs to know what is going on in order to put safeguards in place, both for herself and the Mum.

kangoora

MoneySeeker1 wrote: »

I think (but don't quote me on it) that anything deemed given away within 7 years before the Government started wanting to grab for care costs would be deemed still with your mother (even if it wasn't). So, if you put a stop to the sisters grabbing post-haste you might be in time for there to be at least 7 more years before any question arose of the Government wanting some for care costs.

Atually this bit is incorrect. The local council can go back as far as they like when determining if there has been deliberate deprivation of assets. Of course, the farther back they go the harder it is for them to prove their case - but it is definitely not a hard 7 year limit.

I believe you are getting confused with the 7 year limit for inheritance tax where gifts, provided they were given more than 7 years before death of the giver, do not form part of an estate for Inheritance tax calculations.

DCFC79

Your sister could help by selling the properties she has bought, clear the debt wkth the freeholder, repay the money back to your mum and get herself sorted.

Voyager2002

I support what virtually everyone else on this thread has said: you simply MUST take action to stop the abuse, no matter if it causes a family argument. Your POA means that you have certain responsibilities, and when (not if) everything goes wrong and the authorities know about that £15K loan from your father and all the rest, you are likely to find yourself in trouble unless you have taken official steps to put things right.

By all means speak with your brother, but in terms of sympathetic and knowledgable support I think you would do better with one of the Age charities.

[Deleted User]

Whose name(s) are these maxed out credit cards and loans in?

TBagpuss

As others have said, you need to tak action ASAP.

In terms of the £15,000 from your Dad's account, that was an abusr of the POA and could be classed as theft in breach of trust.
That is now a debt owned to your Dad's estate - who is/ are his executors?

As your Mum stuill has capacity, she is free to give or lend money to your siter if she wants, but I would strongly advise her to revoke the appointment of your sister as one of her attornys and appoint you and your brother instead. that way, it will be harder for your sister to take advantage of her either nw or if your mum becomes ill or unable to deal with her affairs.

If your mum is struggling to say noto your sister, you could ask her whether she would like you and your brother to take over management of her finances, under a new POA, for a while, so that it is youm, rather thanyour mum, whom your sister would have to try ot convince.

If your mum is scared to say no that is a huge issue, and I would endorse the other suggestions to look at the 'elder abuse' resouces and seek advice. Ultimately if your mum isn't willing to say anything it is difficult to interfere while she has capacity.

Would it be possible for you to take your mum out and have a private conversation and come up with a plan with her?

One option (depending on your mum's over all asets) might be for her to tell your sister that the money she has already had (including the £15,000 from your dad ) will not have to be repiad but that she will be amending her will to reduce your sister's share, efectively treating the money she has already given her as an advnace against her inheritance.


On the face of it, it looks as though your sister needs to sell the rental properties, wind yup the company and look for a job. Is she aware that if the company is trading while insolvent, this can remove the protection of limited status and means she can be held personally liable for the company's debts?

WigglyWoo2

Hi, this is just a quick reply to say Thank You so much everyone for reading my post and thinking about my rubbish family situation.

My Mum has just told me that sister has paid back some of the most recent money, and I will find out how much tomorrow. Then I will post a new total of un-repayed money.

However the big picture remains the same, it's very hard to describe how sister puts my mum under pressure but its like a mental bullying I would say. My Mum is terrified of sister getting in a huff etc, which sounds pathetic, but my mum is also worried that her mental state could deteriorate under stress, like it has in the past. Weirdly sister seems very reliant on my Mum for everything, not just the financial stuff. Sister never lifts a finger around the house, my mum cooks every meal for my sister, even her breakfast! I cannot understand the relationship at all, it's embarrassing as sister is an intelligent able bodied woman aged 49 yet she is letting my elderly mum do everything.

The long and short of that is that sister shouldn't be trying to do something she's not cut out for and she ought to sell up now and count her losses. I just can't see her doing that unless forced to by the bank. Now she's started lying and boasting about her 'property portfolio' to anyone who'll listen I think she's deluded and in a full state of denial, even to herself.

I will look at the elder abuse website. I feel suddenly as if my fears are validated by reading your comments and I'm very grateful for the ideas. I've been worrying about this for 2 years now and can't seem to get anywhere with my Mum so I may have to involve solicitors to get POA sorted.

Sister has no filing system, the floor of my Dad's old study is littered with bills and paperwork. All the mail goes to my Mum's house and that's a worry in itself. Would my mum be somehow liable for the debts now that sister is living there and uses the address for her stupid Ltd. Company nonsense?

Thanks again, will read this thread with interest going forward.