CEL requesting payment after POPLA unsuccessful appeal

jyom

Hi All,

I just lost a POPLA appeal with CEL, and they are now requesting payment. I know it's long but please read and help. Thanks

Story below:
I used to attend a gym which has a car park for members, we are required to enter our VRM on a device at reception. My last day at the gym, I attended the gym, entered my VRM as usual, few days later, I received PCN for not registering for a permit - basically said I had not entered my VRM. I appealed with CE, it got declined, appealed with POPLA, unsuccessful too.

I have now formally written to the gym too, since they have been unhelpful so far.

See below:

To XXX Gym Manager,

I write with regards PCN xxx received on xx/xx/2019 by a parking operator named CEL...

When I first received the parking charge notice, I contacted reception who advised that I should appeal and send a copy of my membership and usage list to the parking operator. I did this diligently as advised by yourselves and in a timely manner to the parking operator. The parking operator has declined my appeal.

I now write to inform you to contact the parking operator to request a cancellation of this parking ticket. I am fully aware you are able to do this. My reasons for this request are below:

1. I was a paying member of the club at the time this parking charge was issued.

2. xxx gym as the landowner have expressly given me the right to use the facilities provided by the club, the car park inclusive, as stated in terms and conditions of the membership agreement/contract. To follow this up, paragraph xxx makes mention of “Club Car Park”.

3. I assume access to the facilities are granted in exchange of the monthly membership fee which I never defaulted on during my membership term with the club which forms a “Contract” between “Golds Gym” and “Myself “.

4. There was no change to the contract confirming a change to Paragraph xxx of the terms and conditions, such as a charge for using the car park. I therefore regard the terms and conditions stated in the car park as null and void since they do not form part of the terms and conditions of my membership agreement – Our Contract - which I am fully upholding in this matter.

5. I am using this opportunity to question the enforcement activities being carried out against “paying members” of the club as a result.

6. For your reference, my membership number is xxx and name is xxx xxx.

In conclusion, I would like to implore you as the landowner to instruct the parking operator to cancel this parking charge as I will not be held liable for it and since I already paid for use of this facility as part of my monthly membership. I would be happy if this matter can be resolved without any legal proceeding, however, if it does, I may have to bring the contract and terms and conditions with Golds gym to the attention of the court.

I look forward to hearing from you soon.

Yours Faithfully
xxx xxx


Any advice on how to respond to CEL, I dont want to pay this charge. Below is something I'm thinking of sending to CEL before any further actions.

I write in response to your letter dated xx/xx/2019. As I have mentioned in my previous appeal to yourselves, I will not be held liable for this parking charge, reasons below:

Firstly, I entered my VRM on a device provided by yourselves which should have issued a permit to me. Unfortunately, it is an electronic permit which I have no control over to ensure it is issued to me and no copy of this "electronic permit" is received by myself in any way as my proof.

Secondly, my gym membership contract which I pay for on a monthly basis allows me to use its facilities whilst the gym is in operation. One of the facilities I am entitled to use is the car park with no time limit or restrictions, that is, I can park for as long as I am in the gym.

In your response to POPLA, I note you quoted the ParkingEye v Beavis case, unfortunately, I believe the Beavis case is not applicable here as "there is no legitimate interest in enforcing parking operations in this car park by inducing members of the gym not to overstay in order to efficiently manage the car park for the benefit of the generality of users of the Gym". Also, note that there is no time limit to use the car park for Gym Members. Please be reminded at this juncture once again that I am a paying member of xxx Gym (the Landowner), no time limit is stipulated for members to use the gym and its facilities including the car park during normal opening hours of the gym.

Furthermore, I question the legitimacy of your enforcement activities at this car park for gym members who have already received implied and express permission from the landowner - xxx Gym to use the car park arising from their gym membership contract. Once again, be reminded that I am a paying patron of the Landowner with implied and express permission from the Landowner to use the car park.

I have a contract with the landowner which entitles me to "....use the respective facilities of the Club provided", car park inclusive. Your terms and conditions of car park does not expressly rescind my contract with the gym, as a result I am treating your terms at the car park as null and void since I have a direct contract with the landowner - xxx Gym.

For these reasons, I believe I should not be held liable for this parking charge and this parking charge should be cancelled.

I am happy for us to resolve this issue now by cancellation of this parking charge without court proceedings and legal costs. However, if you are unwilling to cooperate with this, you are equally welcome to progress with legal proceedings where I will fight my case. This excludes passing the matter on to a debt collection agency whilst we are still at the stage of settling the case. Additionally, please do note that if you wish to progress with your proceedings which leads me to incurring costs, I will be reclaiming such costs from yourselves if I am exonerated during the process.

In conclusion, please do not ignore this letter and inform me of how you intend to proceed in resolving this matter. If you do decide to cancel this parking charge, please advise me of such. However, if I do not hear from you within 14 days of receiving this letter, I will assume this matter is closed by yourselves and the parking charge is cancelled. Any further correspondence received from yourselves after this time-frame will not be responded to and treated as harassment.

I look forward to hearing from you within the next 14 days.

Your Faithfully,
xxx xxx

CEL provided response to POPLA appeal with:
pictures of my car during entry and exit, quoted the Beavis case and some others.
Claimed I didnt enter my VRM
Sent a report of registered VRMs on the day and around the same timw=e of PCN.

I would appreciate any advice on this matter, I just think it's unfair to pay this charge of £100.
Thanks

Coupon-mad

Well you can send that but it won't stop them. Good to engage though as it looks better to a Judge to help you win in the end, if the Gym will not cancel it (which they should).

You need to read ahead in readiness for the claim, read other CEL gym defence threads. Nothing we can tell you at this point will stop CEL, except the Gym management, who can.

No-one will tell you to pay this, given we see 99% wins in court. Scam over!

jyom

I will send that letter to CEL and hear what they have to say, I'm sure they will be gunning to make a court claim.



I will definately keep updating progress here and ask for help prior to taking any steps


Thanks @Coupon-mad.

jyom

Hi @Coupon-mad and Happy New Year to you.



Just a quick update on this thread, CEL have now sent this PCN to a company called ZZPS, who are requesting payment in 7days, they call the letter a "Letter Before Action". I have been reading up on a lot of threads on MSE and I am ready for court action if they do decide to make a County Court Claim.



My question at this stage is Do I respond to ZZPS or ignore them?



I have always responded to CEL's demand letters for payments telling them the same thing that I WILL NOT PAY. I am thinking of responding to ZZPS giving them a brief outline of the case till date and to tell them to make county court claim if they intend to get this money from me as I WILL NOT PAY.



Thanks for advice.

KeithP

jyom wrote: »

My question at this stage is Do I respond to ZZPS or ignore them?

Jyom, have you read post #4 of the NEWBIES thread yet?

To summarise that post... ignore debt collectors letters.

Coupon-mad

ZZPS don't file court claims.

CEL do, so wait till they do and you can then defend & win.

jyom

Thanks @KeithP, I have now read it, I'll ignore them.

jyom

@Coupon-mad, Thanks, I'll wait for them to make the claim.

jyom

Hi @Coupon-mad, Hope you're well? Regarding this PCN, Civil Enforcement Ltd have now sent a "Letter Before Action - Claim for Debt". A response is required within 30days from the date of the letter which is 10/03/20 and it contains some Reply Forms. 
I have gone again to read the newbies thread and gathered that I should NOT use the reply forms in the LBA but send them a letter for a SAR, is this still the correct approach? Your response will be appreciated. 

"A SAR is free. Ask for (as a minimum):

- ALL photos taken
- all letters/emails sent and received, including any appeal correspondence earlier
- if the car park was Pay and Display, ALWAYS ask for a PDT machine record from that day, of payments made (VRNs can be partially redacted but insist on getting this and follow it up if they refuse).
- all data held, all evidence they will rely on, and a full copy of the PCN, NTK
- and a list of all PCNs they consider are outstanding against you and/or this VRN, and remind them that any claim must be for all PCNs in one claim, not several separate claims.

DO RESPOND - but DO NOT use the 'reply forms'. You do not have to declare your finances!

As well as the SAR to the parking firm's Data Protection Officer (DPO), also write a letter - by email to Gladstones or BW Legal or directly to whoever the PPC is, if they are not using a solicitor. Your letter can state that you have sent their client a SAR and so you require a restriction of data processing and the case should be put 'on hold'. Confirm your correct 'address for service' (especially if you've moved and they've traced you & might revert back to an old address)."

Fruitcake

The NEWBIES is up to date so yes, you should still follow the advice there.

Have you contacted the gym manager and told them since a court claim has now been issued you require the contact details of the person who will be attending court as a witness?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

Have you left negative feedback on the gym's website and/or social media?

beamerguy

Has CEL added a fake amount in their claim ..... such as and extra £60 ????