FISTRAL BEACH, Newquay, Inital Parking.. please help!!

MinnieSox9

Yes I can confirm that both PCN are for the same day at two Separate times.

Both NTK are for the same date and I believe both turned up on the 18th July.

I’m guessing NTD means note to driver, I tried looking for an abbreviation.. there was no notes left on the vehicle or any letters minus the 2 I’ve received. I don’t know if it would be good for me to upload copies of them, so you guys can see and advice ? However, I’m not sure how to do this.

Coupon-mad

No need to show them to us - you can see them on previous Initial Fistral threads. We've seen them before, and so can you on other threads the same as yours.

You've already told us these were posted a day too late for POFA compliance:

Date of notice is 16th July
Date of contravention 3rd July

Received this post - 18th July

So this is the same as any non POFA case and you just need to appeal (twice, online) in the name of the registered keeper they are addressed to, as per the NEWBIES thread. You could always change the middle bit of the template to say:

Both PCNs are dated 16th July and are deemed delivered no sooner than 18th July according to the POFA, and indeed they did arrive on 18th, a day too late for keeper liability. Cancel the PCNs.

MinnieSox9

Thank you, I have been reading the other Fistral Parking thread but it’s a lot to get my head around. I’m guessing I should use the same template as what they have? Thank you for the additions about the POFA compliance - that bit does make sense to me! So I got this letter on the 18th, I’m guessing I need to appeal asap? If I don’t get a response etc like before the 14days of receiving the NTK should I worry?im only worrying because of the money. Very frustrating as parked and paid at this location on other dates that week! Should I mention that in my appeal?

Le_Kirk

Very frustrating as parked and paid at this location on other dates that week! Should I mention that in my appeal?

Adding anything to the standard appeal is discouraged (except the words suggested by Coupon-mad) as it is possible to shoot yourself in the foot by giving away the driver by saying something like "I parked and paid....." and besides PPCs don't normally take mitigating circumstances into account

Fruitcake

MinnieSox9 wrote: »

Thank you, I have been reading the other Fistral Parking thread but it’s a lot to get my head around. I’m guessing I should use the same template as what they have? Thank you for the additions about the POFA compliance - that bit does make sense to me! So I got this letter on the 18th, I’m guessing I need to appeal asap? If I don’t get a response etc like before the 14days of receiving the NTK should I worry?im only worrying because of the money. Very frustrating as parked and paid at this location on other dates that week! Should I mention that in my appeal?

The keeper should appeal using the initial template in blue from post 1 of the NEWBIES any time they like as long as they don't miss the 28 day appeal deadline.
If you want, the keeper could add a one liner that the NTK was received outwith the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012, being received too late for keeper liability to apply, so they should cancel now and save themselves some money.

Alternatively, send the template unaltered. This guarantees that the driver won't be identified.

The scammers have 35 days to reply to an appeal. Complain to the BPA if this date is missed by more than a couple of days.

If it is rejected then construct a PoPLA appeal using all the relevant points from post 3 of the NEWBIES, making non-PoFA compliant NTK point number one.
You will need to spell out how the scammers have failed liability as the PoPLA assessors often can't count. We have seen this before where an assessor has subtracted one date from another instead of using their fingers and toes. In your case it is: -

Date of alleged event = 3rd July = Day 0

4th = Day 1
5th = Day 2
6th = Day 3

etcetera

17th = Day 14

Date NTK received 18th = Day 15, one day too late to meet keeper liability.

According to the PoFA and the Interpretation Act, an item posted is assumed to have been delivered two working days after the date posted. Since your NTK has conveniently been dated as the 16th, even if it was posted that same day the law says it will arrive on the 18th, which ties in with the date you actually received it.

MinnieSox9

Hi,


I found the below template in the Newbies thread as inform by one of you amazing people helping me with my appeal!


Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,


Just to clarify, am I meant to copy and paste this whole blue part into the appeal?


I am also going to add ...


'The NTK was received outwith the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012, being received too late for keeper liability to apply,


Date of alleged event = 3rd July = Day 0

4th = Day 1
5th = Day 2
6th = Day 3

etcetera

17th = Day 14

Date NTK received 18th = Day 15, one day too late to meet keeper liability.

According to the PoFA and the Interpretation Act, an item posted is assumed to have been delivered two working days after the date posted. Since your NTK has conveniently been dated as the 16th, even if it was posted that same day the law says it will arrive on the 18th, which ties in with the date you actually received it. '




thank you for all your help! sorry for being a pain! just making sure I am doing everything correctly.

Redx

yes, just the blue text and the complaint about failing POFA timescales

no "MY , ME , MYSELF & I"

nothing incriminating , only appealing as KEEPER and not as DRIVER , no ticking any DRIVER boxes etc

if they failed POFA , as keeper you have no liability, so no blabbing

the basics are

"you failed POFA so leave me alone , F U" (gettit ?)


"go chase the driver , who will not be named !!"

Coupon-mad

which ties in with the date you actually received it.

Needs changing to I, not you.

Put your added word into the template instead of this chunk, that you can remove:

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

Obviously if Initial's appeal box only allows less characters just prune the full sentences and make them more like bullet points. Nothing matters too much about the wording, as long as you do not tick 'driver'!

MinnieSox9

hi guys, thanks for all your help! please could you read over the below and let me know if its all good to send as an appeal - again thank you... I am aware I need to appeal twice as two NTK




Re PCN number:


I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.


There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:


If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.


The NTK was received out with the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012, being received too late for keeper liability to apply,
Date of alleged event = 3rd July = Day 0
4th = Day 1
5th = Day 2
6th = Day 3


Etc etc
17th = Day 14

Date NTK was received 18th = Day 15, one day too late to meet keeper liability.

According to the PoFA and the Interpretation Act, an item posted is assumed to have been delivered two working days after the date posted. Since the NTK has been conveniently dated as the 16th, even if it was posted that same day the law says it will arrive on the 18th, which ties in with the date I actually received it.


In all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.


Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.


Yours faithfully,

Fruitcake

That looks OK. Don't forget to help us by complaining to your MP, twice , about this unregulated scam.