Remoaners Revenge...

borntobefree

zarf2007 wrote: »

Nice to see their latest efforts to sabotage what was a democratic vote to leave by preventing the possibility of a prorogued parliament as a method to get a no deal brexit through.

Well done, you have just removed the leverage we needed to get a better deal and if we don’t leave on the 29th Farage will be laughing all the way to the next election. A spectacular remoaner own goal.

Another post blaming Remainers for the state of Brexit....

Tahlullah

triathlon wrote: »

Show me a hardened Brexiteer and I will show you a non educated failure in life, probably without their own home who just wants to get his own back on the people he is jealous of who have made something of their lives.

Scorched earth policy

This is probably the funniest thing I have read all morning.

Err no.

waamo

I disagree this is remoaners revenge. This is about Parliament making decisions and not lumbering into some default position by neglect.

One of the issues in the leave campaign was parliamentary sovereignty. Parliament should and must have the final say.

This is about making sure leave follow through on their promise of restoring parliamentary sovereignty.

Arklight

It hasn't removed any leverage at all because we can't leave without a deal and everyone including the new Tory cabinet knows that.

Even Boris Johnson isn't stupid enough to actually leave the EU with nothing in place. He's grandstanding before caving in the inevitable while blaming his own lies on the EU, "Remoaners" and any other enemy of the people he can think of.

Remarkably, thanks to Corbyns at times frustrating, but ultimately pragmatic steering of Labour's policy through this, he can't blame the Labour Party. The Tory press has been champing at the bit to label Labour as the People's Enemy Party, but it can't, meaning that the chickens may well come to roost on Bojo, and hopefully every one has had a vindaloo the night before and will be carrying a full payload.

It would be much better if Brexit voters could just move on to something else. Its been three years of your foot stamping now. Just accept you won the vote but lost the outcome and move on.

spadoosh

johnsmith1890 wrote: »

When was the referendum? Oh yes, over three years ago now. In the time since, the government has failed to deliver Brexit. Arguably it has let down the electorate; but an electorate that no longer exists. The electoral dynamic has changed. Many of the old, backward-looking, lags who voted Leave have now died off, and a significant number of forward-looking young people who would vote Remain have come into the electorate. Hence we have a new electorate, so we must have a new referendum.

I dont think this is a good argument for two reasons.

First, the electorate changes on a daily basis, daily referenda sounds particularly tiresome.

Secondly, using your logic of people being dead etc we should never have joined the EU because their vote doesn't count anymore.


As a final point. Referenda are a terrible way of managing a country. They do things like create the brexit debate. And you want more of that? Not for me, im happy to vote for people and pay them money to make decisions. There really is no point in them being there if they think i am more capable of making decisions than they are.

spadoosh

triathlon wrote: »

Show me a hardened Brexiteer and I will show you a non educated failure in life, probably without their own home who just wants to get his own back on the people he is jealous of who have made something of their lives.

Scorched earth policy

Hardened brexiteer here.

Got a degree in accounting, bought my house when i was 24, should be mortgage free at 40.

I dont do jealousy because im perfect. :A

I am a bit of an a hole though. :cool:

Show me any remainer and ill show you someone completely duplicitous who's primary interest is their own situation and wealth.

I choose principles over money. I choose autonomy over dependence. I choose personal responsibility over blaming others intelligence because you where that lousy at offering an effective argument. I mean even Nigel Farage, someone i think lacks any credibility, can get people to follow him. You couldn't even outsmart Nigel Farage and you have the audacity to question peoples intelligence?

Are you jealous of Farage's ability to gain followers? Just imagine if you had that skill, what you could achieve. Alas, ranting on MSE is the pinnacle of your political prowess. You must be proud. :T

Malthusian

Arklight wrote: »

Remarkably, thanks to Corbyns at times frustrating, but ultimately pragmatic steering of Labour's policy through this, he can't blame the Labour Party. The Tory press has been champing at the bit to label Labour as the People's Enemy Party, but it can't

An excellent summary. Even if it is by accident, Corbyn has ensured that when he eventually leaves, Labour won't be on the ash heap of history (or not just yet), as it would be if it had followed the urgings of the counter-revolutionary Blairites to become the Remain Party and commit electoral hara-kiri. He has kept the party alive and just about retained its Leave-voting working class electoral base, while avoiding losing the Glastonbury youth wing or the Islingtonite set who keep the media onside.

If Labour had been led by a New Labour politician in 2016, e.g. David Milliband, it is difficult to see them keeping the base onside. They would probably have followed their own Europhile instincts and positioned Labour as the Remain Party, opposing any form of Brexit, hoping that the working class base didn't really mean it, would fall into line and go along with the Labour leadership. They would thus have consigned Labour to the same electoral oblivion as the Lib Dems.

Thanks to Corbyn, Labour may be divided, but at least it exists, and in theory could win an election.

Corbyn and May are the most adept and successful politicians we are likely to see for a generation. Corbyn led Labour out of an impossible position, like a chess grandmaster who finds a way to force a draw by stalemate when everyone else thinks checkmate is inevitable. While May did the job she was given and kept the UK in the EU for three years and counting after the populace voted to Leave. We shall not see their like again.

KittyHawk

Gosh, you had me until 'I don't do anti-semites': as *if* he is any such thing . . .

cloud_dog

This thread is a prime example of why we are where we are, no one understood what 'Brexit' meant; sure individuals will know what they felt it meant but there isn't a common understanding as to what it means. And, this is exactly why Parliament are in the same position, each individual having their own perception of what is acceptable.

I feel fairly comfortable that if there was a re-run remainders would be successful as I believe most people have had the time to digest the implications, understand that unicorns don't actually exist (even if it says so on a side of a bus) but, I accept the process.

There are however two people we can blame for this fiasco and fortunately they are equally split across the political ocean; David Cameron for having no spherical objects and Corbyn for having the fence so far up his Rrrsss he couldn't come down on one site of the other.

ess0two

Arklight wrote: »

It hasn't removed any leverage at all because we can't leave without a deal and everyone including the new Tory cabinet knows that.

Even Boris Johnson isn't stupid enough to actually leave the EU with nothing in place. He's grandstanding before caving in the inevitable while blaming his own lies on the EU, "Remoaners" and any other enemy of the people he can think of.

Remarkably, thanks to Corbyns at times frustrating, but ultimately pragmatic steering of Labour's policy through this, he can't blame the Labour Party. The Tory press has been champing at the bit to label Labour as the People's Enemy Party, but it can't, meaning that the chickens may well come to roost on Bojo, and hopefully every one has had a vindaloo the night before and will be carrying a full payload.

It would be much better if Brexit voters could just move on to something else. Its been three years of your foot stamping now. Just accept you won the vote but lost the outcome and move on.

Even better if remainers could accept the result and move on?