Caution - don't explore quotes too heavily

sjreynolds143

So my son has a new car, and I am exploring different options. I've tried the comparison websites, and I've also looked at Direct Line. There are advantages to DL, because he has been a named driver for the last 4 years on a another policy.

There is a slight wrinkle in that he is moving to a totally different area a few weeks after getting the car, so I need to price that too and check affordability.

So I tried him alone, there and here. I added my wife to see what that looked like. I took her off, and tried with me. I then rang up (because it wouldn't link him to the inherited NCD) and that was tweaked, too, but that was at the new place and I had to start from here.

So I tried again from here, and that was when the problems started - every which way I tried it, I couldn't get the system to give me a quote. I did eventually get one, but it turned out I'd accidentally clicked the wrong day in the month for the birthday. And DL won't let you change address or birth date on the online quotes.

Another phone call later (40 mins, including getting cross with both the oppo who answered the phone and his supervisor) it turns out that "exploring" is a very, very bad idea. I've not seen this anywhere else, hence this post.

Direct Line treat it as potentially fraudulent activity once you've made too many changes on the same quote (despite me starting a new quote each time). Even their internal systems wouldn't let them change it.

We eventually got somewhere, but only because there was a residual quote that I was able to just about modify to where we wanted it. There's one aspect that will need to change later (if we can), once the policy is taken out, but we are there for now.

Direct Line also assured me that the same thing happens on comparison sites. Churchill is part of DL, and if you make too many changes on comparison sites then Churchill will stop sending back quotes.

This seems like quite a major policy shift, and definitely affects how I can buy / get quotes for insurance in the future. So I thought I should let everyone else know, too.

alfie1950

All the sites have had anti-fraud software in place for several years....nothing new !

BoGoF

As above, nothing new here.

Every time you press submit to get a quote you are saying the information is factually correct. All the variables you are changing cannot all be correct.

[Deleted User]

BoGoF wrote: »

As above, nothing new here.

Every time you press submit to get a quote you are saying the information is factually correct. All the variables you are changing cannot all be correct.

That's a rather simplistic view. There are loads of attributes you might want to change, quite genuinely. For instance, adding, or taking away, named drivers. Different addresses - perhaps if you're maybe going to move. Keeping inside a garge or on the drive. All these are reasonable attributes to play around with.


It sems you can't be too careful with these bottom feeders in the insurance sector. They'll blacklist you on Cifas and CUE at the drop of the hat. As the OP suggests, be careful! If possible, try dummy quotes, but the BFs are making that more difficult as well now - though, with care, it still possible to do it and get reasonably accurate quotes.

Quentin

Nevertheless it's a fact!

You always confirm that the information provided is true before submitting it!

If you want to play with material aspects of your details, then don't do it online!

Either do dummy quotes or do it in person at a local broker

Boggles190

Yes, nothing new - seeking multiple quotes with different information can be a fraud indicator.

Modifying certain aspects of the quote won’t trigger it (e.g. excess, level of cover etc.) as these are designed to be flexible but other factors will. The address the vehicle is kept at/policy address is a big one, you live were you live and modifying this several times will be seen as an attempt to manipulate the price. Theses systems will get more and more sophisticated as more data is fed in to them.

sjreynolds143

As I said, I've not seen this written down anywhere. I've gone back and checked Martin's rules for buying car insurance and there is nothing on there to suggest that this is the case. In fact, it specifically suggests trying out other named drivers.

It is also not true to say that the variables cannot be different. The block of variables - car, how long driving, whether named etc were all the same across all the quotes, true. All that changed was whether or not to add (different) named additional drivers, and where the policy was to be. And each time, for that particular quote, I wasn't providing any incorrect information.

Your replies were, to be honest, rather sniffily dismissive. I'm a 50+, educated, experienced man who has plenty of experience buying insurance of all types. If I didn't know, chances are plenty of other people don't either. Please point me to where else it says that too many changes can stop you getting quotes, if it is that obvious.

PS - I would have thought that moving and buying a car at roughly the same time, especially at my son's age, would be quite common. And, again particularly at that age, affordability is key. Hence you need to know what it will be, and what it will change to.

sjreynolds143

Quentin wrote: »

If you want to play with material aspects of your details, then don't do it online!

Either do dummy quotes or do it in person at a local broker

Tricky when all the best prices, we are told, are online. Also tricky when they insist on name, rank and serial number before they'll even let you near the quotes.

[Deleted User]

Boggles190 wrote: »

Yes, nothing new - seeking multiple quotes with different information can be a fraud indicator.

Modifying certain aspects of the quote won’t trigger it (e.g. excess, level of cover etc.) as these are designed to be flexible but other factors will. The address the vehicle is kept at/policy address is a big one, you live were you live and modifying this several times will be seen as an attempt to manipulate the price. Theses systems will get more and more sophisticated as more data is fed in to them.

I would argue that even address is one you might want to modify. For example:


I'm moving in four weeks time but I need to renew my car insurance now. I wonder what it will be at the new address? Let's see … Ah! Much cheaper. Okay, I'll take the vehicle off the road for four weeks rather than insuring it at my current address and then being ripped off with a policy change charge.


I'm not saying the above is a common scenario; probably quite rare. However, it demonstrates an entirely legitimate 'modelling activity' you might want to undertake, but which could result in you being blacklisted.

Boggles190

All that changed was whether or not to add (different) named additional drivers, and where the policy was to be.

Changing named drivers probably won’t have had any effect, unless you also changed who the main driver was at the same time. It is probably changing the location of the policy/vehicle that has been the biggest trigger. I’ve not sold car insurance for a couple of years now, but when I did quoting on multiple different addresses was one of the biggest indicators of fraud going. Yes most of the time it was innocent, but we had more than enough fraud convictions to demonstrate why it was a justified indicator.

Please point me to where else it says that too many changes can stop you getting quotes, if it is that obvious.

There are no specific rules as such, every insurer has it’s own method for detecting fraud and they will not disclose to anyone what this method is for obvious reasons.

Because insurers can decide if they want to offer quotes or not and many online companies are operating on selling policies as quickly and cheaply as they can, if they suspect there is something unusual with a quote they will just stop offering a price.

sjreynolds143

Boggles190 wrote: »

I’ve not sold car insurance for a couple of years now, but when I did quoting on multiple different addresses was one of the biggest indicators of fraud going. Yes most of the time it was innocent, but we had more than enough fraud convictions to demonstrate why it was a justified indicator.

There are no specific rules as such, every insurer has it’s own method for detecting fraud and they will not disclose to anyone what this method is for obvious reasons.

Because insurers can decide if they want to offer quotes or not and many online companies are operating on selling policies as quickly and cheaply as they can, if they suspect there is something unusual with a quote they will just stop offering a price.

Thank you - that's a clear statement and based on your experience of working in the industry. As you say, though "they will not disclose to anyone what this method is". Having found out that this was the case, I thought I would share. I still maintain it is a) important to know, and b) not obvious. I was particularly startled to hear about it going on "behind the scenes" in comparison sites because it is certainly NOT obvious there!