Welcome Break 17 min overstay

embelbem

Hi all,

Firstly thanks to all you do to help people beat these charges!

Secondly, I have read through the newbies sticky and followed the advice (well...tried to) but there are a few points I need help with.


Circumstances of the parking charge notice:

Registered keeper came home from their holiday yesterday to be greeted with a parking charge notice from Parking Eye (issued 12th June). They've spent time yesterday and today reading up on PE and appeals and they are aware that the 28 day deadline for appeal is very close (ie: TOMORROW) hence posting here for advice.

PCN is for overstaying at Birchanger Welcome Break (17 minutes). Driver (who was travelling with a baby) stopped off at the services as they were extremely tired and practically falling asleep at the wheel. They were not aware there was a 2 hour limit and did not see any signs. It was during daylight hours.

After a nap, they purchased some food and drink in the services (they don't have the receipt but it is on their bank statement, although not with a time of purchase). They then had to queue for the baby change and then returned to their car to breastfeed their baby. Obviously the baby needed feeding until it was full, by which time the driver had (unknowingly) overstayed.

RK has tried to ring the Birchanger Welcome Break direct to complain/request cancellation but it just rings and rings then says they are unable to accept the call. The RK has spoken to the central WB customer services who have just given the parking team email to contact (although this forum suggests this will just result in a generic reply).

Apologies if these questions are answered elsewhere, but there is such little time left to get the charge quashed and submit the appeal that there is something of a panic going on right now!

• POFA - Bit confused by this. The PCN includes most of the information mentioned in paragraph 9 of the legislation but does not mention that the keeper is liable if the driver is not identified - does this mean it is a non-compliant PCN?
• Complaint/grounds for appeal - obviously the RK will mention the grace period as the main point of complaint/appeal, along with signage and no GPEOL but is it worth mentioning the equality act in relation to breastfeeding mothers?
• Does anyone have any direct contact details for a manager for the Birchanger Welcome Break? Otherwise the RK will have to submit their complaint to the parking team.

Thanks for any help you can offer

Redx

no GPEOL wont wash since beavis

the EA2010 can be mentioned but we never see anyone act on it for these pcn charges , but should definitely be mentioned in the WB complaint

check the date of the incident and the issue date on the pcn, the postal letter should have arrived by day 15 at the RK address where day zero is the date of the incident

assuming it failed this time test the POFA paragraph may well be missing (possibly on or missing from the back of the NTK ?)

TRY CEO EMAIL IN GOOGLE TO SEE IF THE EMAIL FOR THE co IS ON THAT SITE

ie:- go straight to the top

do not miss using the blue text template appealing as KEEPER on the PE website

no blabbing about who was driving

the DRIVER drove on the day and parked

the KEEPER received the NTK in the post

The_Deep

IMO, PE signs leave much to be desired. I doubt that many judges would agree that they are capable of forming a contract, read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5972164

and enlist the support of your MP as they are obviously trying to scam you.

Nine out of ten of these so called breaches of contract are scams

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

KeithP

Stick Birchanger Welcome Break into Google and send an email to the address you will find on their website.

Using those same bold words in the forums search facility will show you several other threads.

embelbem

Redx wrote: »

check the date of the incident and the issue date on the pcn, the postal letter should have arrived by day 15 at the RK address where day zero is the date of the incident

assuming it failed this time test the POFA paragraph may well be missing (possibly on or missing from the back of the NTK ?)

The RK was on holiday when the letter arrived (and only returned yesterday) so it is impossible to say if it arrived within the 15 days. The incident and issue dates are 12 days apart.

The back of the NTK has three sections: Parking Charge Information, Appeals and Complaint Procedure and Privacy Information. Most of the info from paragraph 9 of POFA is on there somewhere within these sections but section 2f is not, specifically the bit about the RK being liable if the driver is not identified. Does this help the RK?

(f)warn the keeper that if, after the period of 28 days beginning with the day after that on which the notice is given—
(i)the amount of the unpaid parking charges specified under paragraph (d) has not been paid in full, and
(ii)the creditor does not know both the name of the driver and a current address for service for the driver,
the creditor will (if all the applicable conditions under this Schedule are met) have the right to recover from the keeper so much of that amount as remains unpaid;

KeithP

embelbem wrote: »

The incident and issue dates are 12 days apart.

What are those exact dates?

Redx

sounds as if the POFA warning is missing , meaning they are aware that they failed POFA and the 12 days + posting plus 2 days to deliver means it sounds out of time too

is the envelope not franked ?

proceed on the basis that PE failed POFA but wait before appealing by complaining to WB first

if there is no time to waste due to the 28 days being almost up, use the blue text template and appeal as keeper , PLUS email the complaint to WB as well , asap

do not tell anyone who was driving , especially not PE and not WB either

embelbem

KeithP wrote: »

What are those exact dates?

Incident was 2nd June, issue date 14th June

embelbem

Redx wrote: »

sounds as if the POFA warning is missing , meaning they are aware that they failed POFA and the 12 days + posting plus 2 days to deliver means it sounds out of time too

is the envelope not franked ?

proceed on the basis that PE failed POFA but wait before appealing by complaining to WB first

if there is no time to waste due to the 28 days being almost up, use the blue text template and appeal as keeper , PLUS email the complaint to WB as well , asap

do not tell anyone who was driving , especially not PE and not WB either

The RK's husband threw away the envelope :mad: so unsure if it was franked or if there was any kind of date on there.

When appealing to PE as the keeper, should it only talk about them failing POFA or should it include grace period, equality act, signage too? Unsure what/what not to include.

Quentin

Please don't attempt your own appeal

Have you read up on this in the newbies FAQ thread ? As advised in # 7 above

KeithP

embelbem wrote: »

Incident was 2nd June, issue date 14th June

14th June was a Friday, so allowing two working days for delivery, the earliest it could've been delivered was Tuesday 18th June.

From the 2nd June to 18th June is longer that the time allowed for a NtK to be able to transfer the driver's liability to the keeper.