PCN - NCP Rail Station - Appeal rejected

Coupon-mad

POPLA will never ask for anything; they can only consider what both sides provide.

Actually I have had another think, and decided you shouldn't add anything about the driver trying to pay using an app, because I couldn't think of a way to put it that doesn't suggest that the driver must have seen and read signs, to do so!

Re POPLA cases based on signage, those with lots of photos like you have provided (plus your video clips) are fairly likely to win IMHO, based on those I've seen over the years.

Make sure your photos have the date & time embedded in them, so POPLA can see your images are contemporaneous, and that NCP's stick images won't be.

hoth0416

Big thanks for coming back to me!

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Actually I have had another think, and decided you shouldn't add anything about the driver trying to pay using an app, because I couldn't think of a way to put it that doesn't suggest that the driver must have seen and read signs, to do so!

That makes sense - I won't include anything on this.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Re POPLA cases based on signage, those with lots of photos like you have provided (plus your video clips) are fairly likely to win IMHO, based on those I've seen over the years.

That's good to hear. My dad had a moment of weakness yesterday and wanted to settle it and pay (the 14 day 'discount period' from the appeal rejection is tomorrow). I convinced him otherwise and said even if we lose, I'd rather go down swinging rather than voluntary paying them! Especially after all the help I've been given on here!

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Make sure your photos have the date & time embedded in them, so POPLA can see your images are contemporaneous, and that NCP's stick images won't be.

This may be a stupid question - but I understand the images will have the metadata in the image files, but if i'm including them in the PDF - how would you suggest i do this?

Is it a case of:

a) stating the date and time under each image in the PDF?

b) Or is there a way I can upload each image individually (though would POPLA have the ability to look at the metadata to verify date taken...?).

c) or as simple as adding it as a little black box in the top corner of the image as NCP do with their photos? So the images all stay within the PDF and I only upload this as my appeal?

Sorry if I'm missing the obvious!

waamo

Go with c. POPLA won't look at the metadata. If it isn't in front of them they don't go looking.

hoth0416

Thanks - I will finalise and look to submit over the next few days.

Thank you all for your help! I will keep you updated.

hoth0416

Appeal submitted! Thanks for all of your help! I will keep you updated!

hoth0416

Hi all - just to keep you updated I've just had a notification from POPLA that NCP have replied with their comments.

I've quickly checked and it's a fairly lengthy reply with references to my original appeal, the terms of parking and the terms of the cashless provider. They've also provided several extracts and photos.

There may be more to it but that's from a quick skim on my phone!

I will look to redact the personal info from these and share asap so you can see.

Thanks!

hoth0416

Hi all

Please see the response from NCP to the POPLA appeal here. I've redacted all personal info (please shout if you see something I've missed!).

Would appreciate your thoughts on how best to respond to this (can't seem to find pro-formas on the stickies thread - but from some research it seems less is more with the response here?)

One thing to note.... in their response - they've attached several images of the car park (from page 30 of the PDF onwards). Few points:

1. These pictures are not date stamped bar the one on page 34 which is dated November 2018.
   
2. More importantly, the images they've used are from 2 car different car parks!
   
   Some of the images are from the back of the station ("Newport Station Godfrey Road") - this is the 'correct' station.
   
   However, the images on page 31 ("Newport Station Pay and Display") and page 44 ("Newport Station Front Pay and Display") are from the front of the station - a different car park! I'm pretty sure the images from page 37 and page 42 (and probably a few others) are also from the front of the station!

Not sure if that helps!

Redx

Read recent popla rebuttals where they are culled to 2000 characters or less

Use those rebuttals to construct your own

Look for any evidence that supports your appeal , plus problems with landowner contract , POFA failures , BPA Cop failures , signage etc

Coupon-mad

These pictures are not date stamped bar the one on page 34 which is dated November 2018.
More importantly, the images they've used are from 2 car different car parks!

Some of the images are from the back of the station ("Newport Station Godfrey Road") - this is the 'correct' station.

However, the images on page 31 ("Newport Station Pay and Display") and page 44 ("Newport Station Front Pay and Display") are from the front of the station - a different car park! I'm pretty sure the images from page 37 and page 42 (and probably a few others) are also from the front of the station!

Those points are your comments, plus point out to POPLA that:

- NCP's own evidence last page shows that 'Newport station is split into two areas'

- there are no photos at all of any signs in view of your car, not even in the distance

- the pics are so blurry that no terms can be read and many were from the other car park, and one shows yellow flowers obscuring ALL the terms

- the so-called proof that the system was working is so heavily redacted all you can see is the year 2019!

hoth0416

Hi all

Draft rebuttal below. Please let me know your comments.

I have included the above points bar:

Coupon-mad wrote: »

- the so-called proof that the system was working is so heavily redacted all you can see is the year 2019!

as this was my fault for redacting! I was on autopilot when redacting the doc.

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NCP fail to address my appeal points as follows:

1) Signs not prominent
a) NCP states signage on the entrance of the car park sites T&Cs. However, the image provided of the entrance shows the terms being completely obscured by yellow flowers.
b) The final page of NCP's evidence explicitly states Newport Station is split into two areas. Many of the images provided as evidence by NCP are of the other car park and therefore should be dismissed as evidence in my case.
c) No photos provided as evidence by NCP show T&C signs in view of my vehicle. Not even in the distance.
d) The terms are blurry in almost all images provided by NCP.
e) Only one of the images are timestamped (from Nov 18). My images used as evidenced are up to date and demonstrate throughout the car park how signs were not prominent. Figure 52 of my evidence shows a link with three up to date videos of the entrance of the car park showing no visible signs.

To summarise - NCP fails to address the binding judgment of Vine v London Borough of Waltham Forest [2000] EWCA Civ 106' where the plaintiff did not see a sign because the area was not clearly marked as 'private land' and the signs were obscured/not adjacent to the car and could not have been seen and read from a driver's seat before parking.

NCP fail to show how their signs could be read from the driver's seat. My videos and images show they could not be.

2) No evidence of Landowner Authority
a) The contract shared by NCP is not signed therefore not a valid agreement.
b) The agreement does not show the definition of the land on which NCP may operate.
c) The agreement was made in 2013 with no evidence to show it is still in force.

3) Vehicle Images
a) NCP provide no evidence to prove that a stationary, highly advanced camera was used to generate these photos
b) NCP provide no evidence, audited by qualified third party, to prove that its process is not biased to suit its financial objective.

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1944 characters

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I'm not sure if I've properly addressed POFA failures & BPA Cop failures - and whether I've done too much on signs.

My key point is the fact their evidence has images from another car park. Is this as important as I think? And do I need to emphasise it more?

But yes any thoughts, comments, recommendations would be appreciated! Thanks!