Brexit & Broadcasting

[Deleted User]

Doc_N wrote: »

With a sensible result it would solve the horrendous mess that is Brexit.

Even if there is no referendum, or the vote went the same way, it's certain that in a few years time (probably sooner) there'll have to be another referendum, and with all the old jingoistic codgers replaced by younger people with fewer hangups about the past and the empire the vote will go the other way.

And imagine the terms we'd have to accept to get back in again!

So you'd rather the decision to leave was left in the hands of inexperienced kids with no knowledge of how anything works (starting with washing machines and going up) who have all of their 'thoughts' supplied by someone else on social media? As opposed to the older, wiser folk who have seen it all and know exactly how the world works and can think for themselves?

Which camp are you in out of interest?

Doc_N

Colin_Maybe wrote: »

So you'd rather the decision to leave was left in the hands of inexperienced kids with no knowledge of how anything works (starting with washing machines and going up) who have all of their 'thoughts' supplied by someone else on social media? As opposed to the older, wiser folk who have seen it all and know exactly how the world works and can think for themselves?

Which camp are you in out of interest?

No knowledge of how anything works? Ever seen one sorting out someone's PC/laptop/tablet/phone/wifi?

Thoughts supplied by someone else? Look at the readership profile of the Mail and the Express!

Older, wiser folk? Theresa May? Boris Johnson?

pphillips

Doc_N wrote: »

With a sensible result it would solve the horrendous mess that is Brexit.

How would it? A remain victory would not annul the 2016 result, it would be a draw.

[Deleted User]

Doc_N wrote: »

No knowledge of how anything works? Ever seen one sorting out someone's PC/laptop/tablet/phone/wifi?

Thoughts supplied by someone else? Look at the readership profile of the Mail and the Express!

Older, wiser folk? Theresa May? Boris Johnson?

No knowledge of how anything works? Ever seen one sorting out someone's PC/laptop/tablet/phone/wifi?

No because I'm more than capable of doing that myself. I've helped loads sort out the mess they've created including some who deleted the windows folder to make more room. Is this who we're talking about?

Older, wiser folk? Theresa May? Boris Johnson?

Oxford graduates, one of who is the PM of the UK and the other likely to succeed her. Yeah, they must be real dumb dumbs.


Just for the record I would never vote Tory and I voted remain (as did my wife, and don't get her started on Tories). I'm also most definitely in the older category so your earlier post is shown up to be the nonsense that everybody could already see.

Doc_N

Colin_Maybe wrote: »

No because I'm more than capable of doing that myself. I've helped loads sort out the mess they've created including some who deleted the windows folder to make more room. Is this who we're talking about?


Oxford graduates, one of who is the PM of the UK and the other likely to succeed her. Yeah, they must be real dumb dumbs.


Just for the record I would never vote Tory and I voted remain (as did my wife, and don't get her started on Tories). I'm also most definitely in the older category so your earlier post is shown up to be the nonsense that everybody could already see.

A shame you have such a biased and jaded view of young people. Note that it’s primarily these young people who are driving the movement towards saving the planet from extinction while older people just ignore the problem on the grounds that they won’t be affected.

You used the word ‘wiser’ earlier. And you assume that an Oxbridge degree necessarily implies wisdom? Intelligence and wisdom don’t always sit together as the two examples I instanced prove.

If we’re talking nonsense, I’m afraid you’ll win the prize.

Doc_N

pphillips wrote: »

How would it? A remain victory would not annul the 2016 result, it would be a draw.

You’ve not grasped how democracy works. Are you suggesting that if Labour win the next election it would be treated as a draw because the Tories won the last one?

Cornucopia

Doc_N wrote: »

A shame you have such a biased and jaded view of young people. Note that it’s primarily these young people who are driving the movement towards saving the planet from extinction while older people just ignore the problem on the grounds that they won’t be affected.

I think you misunderstand the dynamic, here.

The Earth is not under existential threat (well, short of an asteroid or supernova of the Sun). Some people are being overly dramatic about the environment, which is fine as long as they are doing good environmental deeds (which is questionable), but it doesn't make them right in a factual sense. Such younger people who are concerned are largely middle-class, and this is becoming another class signifier that we should be looking to eliminate.

You can see this in the latest fad. Some people seem to think that significant proportions of UK plastic waste end up in the sea, which is not true, and even if it were, the appropriate action would be to fix the waste/recycling chain accordingly. So we see companies changing from plastic to paper, which has its own set of environmental challenges.

pphillips

Doc_N wrote: »

You’ve not grasped how democracy works. Are you suggesting that if Labour win the next election it would be treated as a draw because the Tories won the last one?

I do understand how democracy works, if Labour win the next general election the result is implemented and a new government is formed. Therefore, you now seem to be arguing that we need to implement the result of the 2016 referendum before we can have another referendum.

[Deleted User]

Doc_N wrote: »

A shame you have such a biased and jaded view of young people. Note that it’s primarily these young people who are driving the movement towards saving the planet from extinction while older people just ignore the problem on the grounds that they won’t be affected.

You used the word ‘wiser’ earlier. And you assume that an Oxbridge degree necessarily implies wisdom? Intelligence and wisdom don’t always sit together as the two examples I instanced prove.

If we’re talking nonsense, I’m afraid you’ll win the prize.

A shame you have such a biased and jaded view of older people.

Not a surprise though.

Doc_N

Cornucopia wrote: »

I think you misunderstand the dynamic, here.

The Earth is not under existential threat (well, short of an asteroid or supernova of the Sun). Some people are being overly dramatic about the environment, which is fine as long as they are doing good environmental deeds (which is questionable), but it doesn't make them right in a factual sense. Such younger people who are concerned are largely middle-class, and this is becoming another class signifier that we should be looking to eliminate.

You can see this in the latest fad. Some people seem to think that significant proportions of UK plastic waste end up in the sea, which is not true, and even if it were, the appropriate action would be to fix the waste/recycling chain accordingly. So we see companies changing from plastic to paper, which has its own set of environmental challenges.

You really see this as 'the latest fad'? Despite all the clear scientific evidence? Talk about Nero fiddling while Rome burns!


Doctors call for nonviolent direct action over climate crisis
Governments have abrogated responsibility with woefully inadequate policies, says letter

Matthew Taylor

Thu 27 Jun 2019 07.00 BST Last modified on Thu 27 Jun 2019 13.33 BST


The doctors are backing the school strike movement, which staged another march in London last Friday.

More than 1,000 doctors including 40 professors, several eminent public health figures and past presidents of royal colleges are calling for widespread nonviolent civil disobedience in the face of the environmental crisis.

In a letter to the Guardian, the doctors say government policies are “woefully inadequate”, and call on politicians and the media to face the facts of the unfolding ecological emergency and take action.

“As caring professionals we cannot countenance current policies which push the world’s most vulnerable towards progressive environmental catastrophe,” they write.

“We are particularly alarmed by the effects of rising temperatures on health and heed predictions of societal collapse and consequent mass migration. Such collapse risks damage to physical and mental health on an unprecedented scale.”

The doctors back the school strike movement, which was started by the Swedish teenager Greta Thunberg and is calling for a general climate strike in the autumn. They also back the Extinction Rebellion protests during which thousands of people blocked key sites in London for 10 days in April.

“Governments abrogate their responsibility when pursuing grossly inadequate policies that risk environmental collapse. Nonviolent direct action then becomes the reasonable choice for responsible individuals.”

The letter was organised by Bing Jones, a retired associate specialist haematologist from Sheffield, who said it had tapped into a growing concern in the medical profession about the climate crisis.

“I am no expert in circulating or organising this sort of thing but within a few weeks we had over 1,000 doctors signed up,” he said.

“We have already lost most of our Arctic ice, most of our wild animals, and much of our productive land. Our trajectory is towards a catastrophic 3C of warming or more. To limit the inevitable damage, we must act now.”

Several doctors who signed the letter compared the environmental crisis a sick patient.

Aarti Bansal, a GP from Sheffield, said: “The planet has a fever and not unlike us, its systems are breaking down. We have a decade to prevent this fever from getting out of control and we owe it to our children and all life to act like we do in any emergency.”

Jones said the issue was like someone seeing blood when they go to the toilet but refusing to accept the doctor’s diagnosis or proposed treatment.

“The warning signs of this emergency are clear and inescapable and we have been told what the treatment is … now, in a medical situation a patient would not ignore that and neither can we ignore the environmental emergency and its dire consequences for human life,” he said.

Another of the signatories, Dr David Pencheon, from the University of Exeter, agreed the “scientific and empirical evidence of climate breakdown” was undeniable.

“All that makes life worth living is at severe risk. This is happening on our watch and will be our legacy. Historians will look back on the first three decades of the 21st century and comment, ‘They knew so much, yet they nearly did so little,’” said Pencheon, who was director of the sustainable development unit for NHS England and Public Health England.

The doctors are backing three demands similar to those outlined by Extinction Rebellion: that governments tell the truth about the scale of the crisis; that there must be “carbon neutrality within the IPCC timeframe”; and that governments “establish and are led by citizens’ assemblies to enable climate and ecological justice”.

The letter, which is signed mainly by doctors in the UK, follows a separate letter from the UK Health Alliance on Climate Change, which represents all major health bodies and 650,000 healthcare professionals in the UK. Sent earlier this month, the alliance’s letter called on the government to adopt a zero emissions target by 2050.

In the US, 70 leading public health groups, including the American Medical Association and the American Academy of Pediatrics, have issued a statement in which they say the climate crisis is also a health emergency and call on government and businesses to take urgent action.

Jones said doctors and medical professionals around the world were waking up to the climate crisis and could become a powerful voice in demanding urgent change.

“There is a growing awareness that this environmental crisis is also a health crisis,” he said. “Doctors are scientifically literate so they understand the facts of this emergency and because they are looking after people every day they are inherently caring so they really get the likely impact.

“Politeness no longer makes sense and inaction is now negligent. Children are rising up to protect their future. We must now take direct action with them.”