PCN where permit not transferred to vehicle

Le_Kirk

1. No case for action against the keeper due to contravention of POFA 2012 Paragraph 4

Should be: -

1. No cause for action against the keeper due to contravention of POFA 2012 Paragraph 4

Cornerhog82

So an update on this.

Following Coupon-Mad's advice...

Email and letters went to the PPC transferring liability as well as submitting the POPLA appeal subsequently challenging their compliance with POFA, as they do in fact know the driver. Having checked the appeals tracker, the POPLA appeal is still awaiting PPC information and evidence on all PCNs .

In the meantime, the PPC have now sent the same PCN references, now readdressed, to the driver, but with an August issue date.

See redacted copy here: https://imgur.com/HdSI9Cf of one of the PCNs.

Should it now be a case of letting the POPLA appeal process play out? Can the same PCNs be chased with the driver almost 3 months after the original alleged contravention, albeit with liability transferred?

Cornerhog82

Cornerhog82 wrote: »

So an update on this.

Following Coupon-Mad's advice...

Email and letters went to the PPC transferring liability as well as submitting the POPLA appeal subsequently challenging their compliance with POFA, as they do in fact know the driver. Having checked the appeals tracker, the POPLA appeal is still awaiting PPC information and evidence on all PCNs .

In the meantime, the PPC have now sent the same PCN references, now readdressed, to the driver, but with an August issue date.

See redacted copy here: https://imgur.com/HdSI9Cf of one of the PCNs.

Should it now be a case of letting the POPLA appeal process play out? Can the same PCNs be chased with the driver almost 3 months after the original alleged contravention, albeit with liability transferred?

Having had a read through the POPLA decisions thread, am I correct in thinking that the PPC has 21 days to reply with evidence to the POPLA appeal process?

As outlined above, the POPLA appeals submitted (4 of them) relate to the PCN being sent to the RK. If the appeal succeeds, where does that leave the readdressed PCNs? I'm a bit unclear on whether I need to consider any further actions at this stage?

Coupon-mad

If a POPLA appeal succeeds then POPLA state that the PCN must be cancelled.

Cornerhog82

Coupon-mad wrote: »

If a POPLA appeal succeeds then POPLA state that the PCN must be cancelled.

Thanks for the reply Coupon-Mad. So no further action required at this stage regarding the readdressed PCNs using the same reference numbers? PPC looking for a quick payout?

Cornerhog82

Is there a usual time frame for PPC to submit their evidence to POPLA? Some posts seem to have suggested 21 days, other information I've read suggests 28 days - is it dependent on the assessor?

Cornerhog82

PPC have uploaded evidence to the POPLA portal which I will now need to go through and rebut as best I can within 7 days.

However, in regards to the appeal point 1 as per Coupon-Mad's advice:
1. No cause for action against the keeper due to contravention of POFA 2012 Paragraph 4

PPC states they are unsure of why the appellant has appealed to POPLA on this grounds of appeal, when they are the registered keeper of the vehicle and submitted a Transfer of Liability to the driver of the vehicle on XX Aug 2019, so are therefore no longer liable for the PCN.

I take it my response here is that the basis of their original PCN was against the keeper and any potential liability has been transferred under the POFA before any action has commenced and they have no case for action against the keeper. This is in contravention of POFA Paragraph 4, as they know the name of the name and address of driver.

Essentially there are now 2 versions of each PCN - one to the RK (on which the appeal was based) and one to the driver, which appears to have been hastily issued in August following the TOL.

Coupon-mad

You are the keeper and you were given a POPLA code so you are entitled to follow that process, and you were always entitled to transfer liability too.

You simply need to point out to POPLA that the driver has already been named and their address provided so you can't understand why the PPC did not withdraw from POPLA against the keeper, but as they have chosen not to they have to abide by POPLA's decision. Quite simply, once the driver has been named, as long as this is done before legal action commences (as the POFA says) the right to keeper liability falls away.

The PPC has painted themselves into a corner, so tell POPLA that!

Since POPLA does not have the power to uphold a case against a keeper who cannot be liable or to tell a parking firm they now have carte blanche to go after the named driver, a third party, POPLA will have to find that the appellant is not liable and uphold the appeal, and tell the PPC to cancel the parking charge. Whether this is fair on the PPC or not is irrelevant but they had an option to withdraw from this appeal and did not take that. Point that out CLEARLY to POPLA.

Spell it out. You have twisted them into a corner, exactly as planned so show POPLA what you have done so they can't do anything except uphold YOUR (keeper) appeal.

Cornerhog82

Coupon-mad wrote: »

You are the keeper and you were given a POPLA code so you are entitled to follow that process, and you were always entitled to transfer liability too.

You simply need to point out to POPLA that the driver has already been named and their address provided so you can't understand why the PPC did not withdraw from POPLA against the keeper, but as they have chosen not to they have to abide by POPLA's decision. Quite simply, once the driver has been named, as long as this is done before legal action commences (as the POFA says) the right to keeper liability falls away.

The PPC has painted themselves into a corner, so tell POPLA that!

Would you suggest rebutting other points where possible or focusing solely on this?

Since POPLA does not have the power to uphold a case against a keeper who cannot be liable or to tell a parking firm they now have carte blanche to go after the named driver, a third party, POPLA will have to find that the appellant is not liable and uphold the appeal, and tell the PPC to cancel the parking charge. Whether this is fair on the PPC or not is irrelevant but they had an option to withdraw from this appeal and did not take that. Point that out CLEARLY to POPLA.

Spell it out. You have twisted them into a corner, exactly as planned so show POPLA what you have done so they can't do anything except uphold YOUR (keeper) appeal.

Thank you Coupon-Mad that's a really helpful and succint outline of the approach to take, which I really appreciate. It became confusing once they sent out the PCN renamed against the driver, which they have also included in their evidence pack, referencing that liability has been transferred.

However, they have actually included the following in their evidence against contravention of POFA2012 Para 4...'Unsure why the appellant has appealed to POPLA on these grounds, when they are the registered keeper and submitted a Transfer of Liability to the driver on XX Aug 2019, so therefore are no longer liable for the PCN.'

I will draft a response to the effect of your advice

Coupon-mad

They are unsure because they've never seen this sneaky tactic before. it's not one I've ever tried(!) but in your case with little else to appeal on, it was worth a roll of the dice!

The PPC just don't understand that their only 'out' was to withdraw from POPLA, saying that the driver has been named so they were pursuing that person, they failed! LOL...