Redundant while pregnant

EGW17

Hello. I’m a before and after sch nanny.
I sadly lost my baby at 22 weeks pregnant. I let my employer know that I would be taking two weeks of work sick due to having to give birth letting her know the day I would be due back to work. A few days later she advertised my job role online not stating it was for emergency cover, which she is now claiming it was.
I was then signed off work by my hospital for a further 8 weeks due to such a traumatic birth, letting my boss know, one day later she made me redundant due to her work hours changing because her boss could see she was struggling with childcare so offered her alternative hours, which she agreed to meaning she could now drop the children off at sch in the mornings, She said she still needed help with childcare in the evenings the hours I use to work but her mum was now helping out instead. Leaving me out of a job.
I received an email from her with no prior warning saying she no longer needed me and this was my four weeks notice. Stating she didn’t need to pay my sick pay and good luck in the future.
I raised a grievance with herself and now have received a letter from her solicitor saying it was a simple case of redundancy which I don’t think it was.
Just wondering where I go from here as I don’t have the money to be paying for a solicitor like she does.

Les79

Firstly, how long were you continuously employed with them for?

Takeaway_Addict

EGW17 wrote: »

Hello. I’m a before and after sch nanny.
I sadly lost my baby at 22 weeks pregnant. I let my employer know that I would be taking two weeks of work sick due to having to give birth letting her know the day I would be due back to work. A few days later she advertised my job role online not stating it was for emergency cover, which she is now claiming it was.
I was then signed off work by my hospital for a further 8 weeks due to such a traumatic birth, letting my boss know, one day later she made me redundant due to her work hours changing because her boss could see she was struggling with childcare so offered her alternative hours, which she agreed to meaning she could now drop the children off at sch in the mornings, She said she still needed help with childcare in the evenings the hours I use to work but her mum was now helping out instead. Leaving me out of a job.
I received an email from her with no prior warning saying she no longer needed me and this was my four weeks notice. Stating she didn’t need to pay my sick pay and good luck in the future.
I raised a grievance with herself and now have received a letter from her solicitor saying it was a simple case of redundancy which I don’t think it was.
Just wondering where I go from here as I don’t have the money to be paying for a solicitor like she does.

It sounds horrible and callous by the employer but my gut feeling is they may get away with it.

The job has gone, it may have been instigated by what happened to you but the employer has decided this role is no longer needed and I suspect there are no other jobs you could apply for with that employer (that are vacant).

You maybe entitled to some redundancy if you have been there longer than 2 years.

Really shittty and I hope I'm wrong and someone corrects me because I'd gladly be wrong.

Look after yourself.

Les79

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

It sounds horrible and callous by the employer but my gut feeling is they may get away with it.

The job has gone, it may have been instigated by what happened to you but the employer has decided this role is no longer needed and I suspect there are no other jobs you could apply for with that employer (that are vacant).

You maybe entitled to some redundancy if you have been there longer than 2 years.

Really shittty and I hope I'm wrong and someone corrects me because I'd gladly be wrong.

Look after yourself.

I think there *may* be a case to argue, but it isn't clear-cut at all...


For example, is this really a "pregnancy" issue or just a "sickness" issue? That's a pretty sensitive question, to be fair, and I ask it with the greatest of sympathy towards OP. I don't know what the legal position is on that, but it ultimately may not qualify as "discrimination" if not considered a "pregnancy" issue by the letter of the law... That's not strictly the end of the road, though.


It doesn't sound like the job had disappeared per se, but rather that the terms had changed (going from AM+PM work to just PM work). It might not have been a legitimate redundancy situation as the work, despite being reduced in hours, was still available for OP. I can't see any reason why OP shouldn't have been considered for the PM only work aside from the sickness.... That could qualify as an unfair dismissal, but would only really come into play if they were employed for >2 years (hence my initial question). That being said, I am unsure on this particular paragraph of my post.


If it can be established that it was a "pregnancy" issue then I think it would be much more clear-cut here.


Ultimately, in most cases OP would need to go through ACAS Conciliation before an ET and it might actually be worth a pot-shot going through Conciliation no matter what. I would be sure to have the ORIGINAL screenshot of the job advert at hand at least (OP; if you have the later version of it only then let us know as it is *usually* possible to obtain the original versions using the internet cache and I'll find it for you).


I would also advise OP to speak to ACAS and see what they say.

EGW17

Thank you. I was only employed with her for 9 months.
I got no consultation meeting prior to being made redundant and she became very off with me as soon as she found out I would have to take sick leave due to pregnancy complications.
My sick note does state it was for pregnancy complications on it.
Am I right that two weeks after losing a baby you still get a two week protected period in employment?
The impact it’s had on my health physically and mentally is serve as it was right on top of losing my baby.
Bit worried she will have a solicitor to fight her corner and I just can’t afford one right now

EGW17

Sorry yes I do have both the original post. Thank you

p00hsticks

EGW17 wrote: »

Thank you. I was only employed with her for 9 months.

In that case you may struggle - although it's still possible to claim you were unfairly dismissed, with less than two years service your employment can be terminated for pretty much any reason.


If I were you, I'd try to move on as best you can. I'm sorry for your loss.

Les79

EGW17 wrote: »

Thank you. I was only employed with her for 9 months.
I got no consultation meeting prior to being made redundant and she became very off with me as soon as she found out I would have to take sick leave due to pregnancy complications.
My sick note does state it was for pregnancy complications on it.
Am I right that two weeks after losing a baby you still get a two week protected period in employment?
The impact it’s had on my health physically and mentally is serve as it was right on top of losing my baby.
Bit worried she will have a solicitor to fight her corner and I just can’t afford one right now

Apologies but I'm not a legal expert (and I feel that many have left this forum as of late)…


but to try and answer some of your questions:


- The government website suggests that there are no rules surrounding the consultation meetings if the affected employees are <20 so not sure how that would work in practice.


- It would be interesting from an academic point of view for you to pursue this case, but I'm not 100%. For example, and I haven't looked too hard to be fair (so I could be interpreting wrong OR there could be more favourable ones out there), the case of Lyons v DWP Jobcentre Plus:

https://www.warners-solicitors.co.uk/news/dismissal-sickness-absence-maternity-leave-not-discriminatory/ wrote:

Although she was treated unfavourably for a pregnancy-related illness, such treatment only amounts to discrimination under Section 18 of the Equality Act 2010 if it occurs between the beginning of the pregnancy and the end of maternity leave. In this case, the unfavourable treatment took place after the protected period, during the time when Miss Lyons was absent on sick leave rather than maternity leave.

That woman DID, however, get an award for unfair dismissal because the company failed to follow process, but it was 50% reduced. Worth reading up on this case and certainly look for others!




I think you'd be entitled to "ask the question" by initiating ACAS Conciliation and put forward your discrimination claims. This step is pre-ET, and gives you both 1 month to consider settlement. Sometimes an employer is willing to settle because ET can be costly and time-consuming, potentially also damaging reputation.


BUT before you do anything, call up ACAS and discuss the case with them first of all. See if they feel you have a case to make, and see if they'd mirror my advice about Conciliation.


Aside from that, good luck!

EDIT: I wouldn't recommend hiring a solicitor until AFTER Conciliation (and even then you do have the option to self-represent), there isn't much point aside from helping you draft letters etc. I would also suggest that you not to spend too much time on this

EGW17

Thank you. I’ve raised a grievance with my employer with no response, so going to forward the case onto early conciliation with ACAS.
I was still in my protected period when she made me redundant.
It was 5 days after I gave birth to our little girl.
And One day after I told her a doctor had signed me off for 8 weeks due to pregnancy complications.
She told me in my redundancy email that the only way I would get paid for my 4 weeks notice is if I worked it. I was in no fit state emotionally or physically.

lincroft1710

How many hours a day were you working?

Les79

EGW17 wrote: »

I was still in my protected period when she made me redundant.
It was 5 days after I gave birth to our little girl.

Sorry if I'm missing something here, but the case I found suggests that 5 days after birth would be classed as "sick" rather than "pregnancy". And their defence could well be to quote the ruling from that case.


Did you find something to the contrary? I didn't do a full search by any stretch of the imagination so I could well have missed something out....


still, worth a try with Conciliation. Good luck!