Woodford Concerns

masonic

dividendhero wrote: »

As I understand it, Woodford is selling unlisted [STRIKE]junk[/STRIKE] unloved shares and buying ftse 100. That implies Woodford believe the fund has a future

I'm not sure it implies anything. Although the fund is suspended, he must continue to manage it in line with the objectives and investment policy. One of those objectives is "to provide a reasonable level of income together with capital growth" (stop laughing ) and that wouldn't be achieved by holding cash for the duration of the suspension, until the fund is reopened or put into wind-down.

Johnnyboy11

WPCT can be had for 48p today, that's a 52p loss in its 4 years of trading. Factor in say a further 10p loss for inflaton, make it a 62p loss. Adjust for the depreciation of the GBP over that period of say 20%, making it an 82% loss. Then finally adjust for the NAV discount of 37%, resulting in WPCT shareholders actually owing the UK's star fund manager around 20% of their initial investment. He'll be at your door any day now, with the bailiffs, demanding that you settle up...

Leon_W

WPCT will go lower.

Another problem now for WPCT is that it can't hold over 10% of unquoted stocks and last night the Guernsey's stock exchange (cough cough !) de-listed the gruesome twosome. Benevolent AI (a crock) and the alchemistic Industrial Heat (an even bigger crock) .

The "listings". and I use the term loosely, were basically fabricated to inflate the NAV of both. Now that they are no longer listed this puts the fund over the 10% threshold for unquoted's. In my view neither Industrial Heat or Benevolent AI are worth much at all, if anything.

It really is like watching a car crash in slow motion.

masonic

Leon_W wrote: »

Another problem now for WPCT is that it can't hold over 10% of unquoted stocks and last night the Guernsey's stock exchange (cough cough !) de-listed the gruesome twosome. Benevolent AI (a crock) and the alchemistic Industrial Heat (an even bigger crock) .

I think you are getting confused. WPCT has no such limit on holding unquoted stocks. Perhaps you are thinking of WEIF.

AnotherJoe

dividendhero wrote: »

As I understand it, Woodford is selling unlisted [STRIKE]junk[/STRIKE] unloved shares and buying ftse 100. That implies Woodford believe the fund has a future

He has to get rid of the illiquid "investments*" because of rules. That's how he got into this mess in the first place. And he's got to buy something that produces income. Which FTSE 100 fits the bill. So it implies nothing except that's what he has to do.

* Trouble is much of it is unsellable at any price because he bought rubbish. He might as well have bought car parking spaces or vineyards.

Leon_W

Yes, sorry, I meant WEIF ! I won't go back and edit as it'll just confuse. thanks.

poppy10_2

Johnnyboy11 wrote: »

WPCT can be had for 48p today, that's a 52p loss in its 4 years of trading. Factor in say a further 10p loss for inflaton, make it a 62p loss. Adjust for the depreciation of the GBP over that period of say 20%, making it an 82% loss. Then finally adjust for the NAV discount of 37%, resulting in WPCT shareholders actually owing the UK's star fund manager around 20% of their initial investment. He'll be at your door any day now, with the bailiffs, demanding that you settle up...

You got the NAV discount wrong. The share price already reflects the NAV discount so you shouldn't subtract that again

AnotherJoe

poppy10 wrote: »

You got the NAV discount wrong. The share price already reflects the NAV discount so you shouldn't subtract that again

You could always add the opportunity loss back in though. Eg let's say FTSE all share is up 20% in past 4 years (justa guess) then you've lost the 20% you'd have made.
Or to really turn the screw, say you'd bought Fundsmith or Train instead (equivalent 'superstar' fund managers so a fair comparison) . Doesn't even bear thinking about. :eek:
D.

Brian65

Johnnyboy11 wrote: »

WPCT can be had for 48p today, that's a 52p loss in its 4 years of trading. Factor in say a further 10p loss for inflaton, make it a 62p loss. Adjust for the depreciation of the GBP over that period of say 20%, making it an 82% loss. Then finally adjust for the NAV discount of 37%, resulting in WPCT shareholders actually owing the UK's star fund manager around 20% of their initial investment. He'll be at your door any day now, with the bailiffs, demanding that you settle up...

A sensible comparison would have been comparing the total returns with the ftse all share or sector average.

Johnnyboy11

Brian65 wrote: »

A sensible comparison would have been comparing the total returns with the ftse all share or sector average.

I was being sarcastic, just a tad...