Woodford Concerns

Leon_W

Yes, sorry, I meant WEIF ! I won't go back and edit as it'll just confuse. thanks.

poppy10_2

Johnnyboy11 wrote: »

WPCT can be had for 48p today, that's a 52p loss in its 4 years of trading. Factor in say a further 10p loss for inflaton, make it a 62p loss. Adjust for the depreciation of the GBP over that period of say 20%, making it an 82% loss. Then finally adjust for the NAV discount of 37%, resulting in WPCT shareholders actually owing the UK's star fund manager around 20% of their initial investment. He'll be at your door any day now, with the bailiffs, demanding that you settle up...

You got the NAV discount wrong. The share price already reflects the NAV discount so you shouldn't subtract that again

AnotherJoe

poppy10 wrote: »

You got the NAV discount wrong. The share price already reflects the NAV discount so you shouldn't subtract that again

You could always add the opportunity loss back in though. Eg let's say FTSE all share is up 20% in past 4 years (justa guess) then you've lost the 20% you'd have made.
Or to really turn the screw, say you'd bought Fundsmith or Train instead (equivalent 'superstar' fund managers so a fair comparison) . Doesn't even bear thinking about. :eek:
D.

Brian65

Johnnyboy11 wrote: »

WPCT can be had for 48p today, that's a 52p loss in its 4 years of trading. Factor in say a further 10p loss for inflaton, make it a 62p loss. Adjust for the depreciation of the GBP over that period of say 20%, making it an 82% loss. Then finally adjust for the NAV discount of 37%, resulting in WPCT shareholders actually owing the UK's star fund manager around 20% of their initial investment. He'll be at your door any day now, with the bailiffs, demanding that you settle up...

A sensible comparison would have been comparing the total returns with the ftse all share or sector average.

Johnnyboy11

Brian65 wrote: »

A sensible comparison would have been comparing the total returns with the ftse all share or sector average.

I was being sarcastic, just a tad...

Moe_The_Bartender

It seems that WPCT is close to breaching its 80% limit on unquoted stocks. Investec have placed a sell rating with a target price of 40p. Trading under 47p today.

poppy10_2

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

It seems that WPCT is close to breaching its 80% limit on unquoted stocks.

Yes. Woodford's dodgy listings of Industrial Heat and Benevolent AI and too shady for even the Guernsey stock exchange and they have now been de-listed. As the number one and number two top holdings in WPCT, accounting for 17.4% of the portfolio as of April, if they are now going to be classed as unquoted again it is going to push WPCT over its self-imposed 80% limit. Not that that's ever stopped Woodford in the past - he changed the unquoted limit from 60% of net assets to 80% of net assets and then 80% of gross assets, all waved through unquestioningly by the "independent" WPCT board. Nothing to stop him raising the limit to 150% of gross assets.

Also on the horizon - as per FT today Woodford Investment Management is still on the hook to give Proton Partners a further £43 million on request at any point until August 2020. If they call this in, WIM is screwed. WEIF is gated and unlikely to be able to spare the cash. WIFF is (supposedly) only for dividend-producing quoted stocks, and has been facing redemption pressures so won't be able to conjure up £43 million either. WPCT is already knee-deep into its £150 million overdraft and even if it maxes this out still won't have enough cash to pay PP. Omnis (which Woodford previously used to buy into PP) is no longer managed by WIM.

AnotherJoe

Moe_The_Bartender wrote: »

It seems that WPCT is close to breaching its 80% limit on unquoted stocks. Investec have placed a sell rating with a target price of 40p. Trading under 47p today.

Easily fixed. Just write them down to their true value.

Thrugelmir

poppy10 wrote: »

Yes. Woodford's dodgy listings of Industrial Heat and Benevolent AI and too shady for even the Guernsey stock exchange and they have now been de-listed. As the number one and number two top holdings in WPCT, accounting for 17.4% of the portfolio as of April, if they are now going to be classed as unquoted again it is going to push WPCT over its self-imposed 80% limit. Not that that's ever stopped Woodford in the past - he changed the unquoted limit from 60% of net assets to 80% of net assets and then 80% of gross assets, all waved through unquestioningly by the "independent" WPCT board. Nothing to stop him raising the limit to 150% of gross assets.

Also on the horizon - as per FT today Woodford Investment Management is still on the hook to give Proton Partners a further £43 million on request at any point until August 2020. If they call this in, WIM is screwed. WEIF is gated and unlikely to be able to spare the cash. WIFF is (supposedly) only for dividend-producing quoted stocks, and has been facing redemption pressures so won't be able to conjure up £43 million either. WPCT is already knee-deep into its £150 million overdraft and even if it maxes this out still won't have enough cash to pay PP. Omnis (which Woodford previously used to buy into PP) is no longer managed by WIM.

Liquidating stocks at a 15% discount it seems. Forced sellers of large lines just have to accept what's on offer. Stock overhangs have depressed a number of stock prices. Takes time for the market to digest.

Midas

Burford Capital (which from memory was the second or third largest holding in WEIF before the suspension) is being shorted by Muddy Waters and down c. 25% this morning :eek: