Woodford Concerns

Brian65

Nicosy wrote: »

More problems for Woodford as his 4th largest holding is de-valued...

https://news.shack15.com/benevolent-ai-faces-valuation-plunge/

Why is it a problem for Woodford whilst he is still getting his fees?

AnotherJoe

Wait until IH which presumably is more than 10% now since who on earth would buy it, so its relative % would rise every time they sold something with actual value, a nasty little trap, gets revalued to zero.

dividendhero

According company news, Woodford has been BUYING more shares in Keir

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/k/kier-group-plc-ordinary-1p/share-news

!!!!!! ? :mad::mad:

bowlhead99

dividendhero wrote: »

According company news, Woodford has been BUYING more shares in Keir

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-search-results/k/kier-group-plc-ordinary-1p/share-news

!!!!!! ? :mad::mad:

I wouldn't get too agitated about it. Ten days earlier the funds he controls sold 1.9% of the company (ownership dropped from 15.87% to 13.97) and then it went back up by 250k shares (0.15%). A couple of hundred thousand is insignificant really.

Just noise really, although if he did cancel or reverse a sale transaction or sell a chunk and buy back again on 15th July, that would have been a good day to do it given the price wobbles took the market price to a low point then. But insignificant in the big picture, no real point second guessing what might have happened

talexuser

The top investment trust bought in June turns out to be Patient Capital (beating Scottish Mortgage). So a lot of people are willing to juggle the falling knife, and there are opportunities at ~33% discount.

masonic

talexuser wrote: »

The top investment trust bought in June turns out to be Patient Capital (beating Scottish Mortgage). So a lot of people are willing to juggle the falling knife, and there are opportunities at ~33% discount.

Is it not the case that every trade in an investment trust involves both a buy and a sell, so it necessarily follows that the top investment trust sold in June is also WPCT? So an equal volume of sales by people unwilling to sit the current situation out.

AnotherJoe

talexuser wrote: »

The top investment trust bought in June turns out to be Patient Capital (beating Scottish Mortgage). So a lot of people are willing to juggle the falling knife, and there are opportunities at ~33% discount.

Opportunities at a ~33% discount to a wholly fictional NAV based upon literally made up numbers (which IMNSHO will eventually turn out to be roughly double the "real" NAV)
At the moment WPCT buys are running on the Greater Fool theory of stock trading.

londoninvestor

masonic wrote: »

Is it not the case that every trade in an investment trust involves both a buy and a sell, so it necessarily follows that the top investment trust sold in June is also WPCT?

Some trusts (like CTY) do regularly issue new shares and sell them into the market to prevent a premium from developing.

In WPCT's case your reasoning is quite correct though.

Malthusian

masonic wrote: »

Is it not the case that every trade in an investment trust involves both a buy and a sell, so it necessarily follows that the top investment trust sold in June is also WPCT?

In the absence of share buybacks or similar (not relevant to WPCT) I think you are right.

It is not like an open-ended fund when you can talk about inflows and outflows.

to_jackie_too

A lot of people seem be under the misapprehension that a share price goes down because people are selling, and rises because people are buying. Despite the fact (with certain exceptions as already mentioned) that the number of shares bought always equals the number of shares sold.

In theory, no trading at all is necessary for a share price to move. When there is news affecting a share's value, all investors who follow a share can mentally adjust the prices they would be prepared to sell or buy some of it. And if they are market makers or have live orders in the order book, they'll amend the bid/offer prices they are currently making. That can change the price, without any trading.

In practice, there is usually some difference of opinion about just how far the price should move, so there may be a little flurry of trading before the price settles down. That is probably what we're seeing with WPCT. Clearly, recent news is negative for the share price, but there's a lot of uncertainty about just how negative.

Can WPCT stick to its strategy, since it does not have WEI's problem of holding illiquid assets in an open-ended vehicle? Even if it can, ITs holding unquoted assets often have large and persistent discounts to their NAV; and the threat of WEI holding a fire sale of some of the same shares WPCT holds means that discount should be wider now. But if WPCT does change its strategy, that may involve choosing to hold its own fire sale of some of its holdings (or just writing them off).

There's plenty for investors to disagree about there, so it's not surprising that there are a lot of buyers and a lot of sellers.