Court Letter for 4 year old PCN

MsSLP

Hi,

I need some urgent help. I have read the newbies thread, but as this is PCN is from 4 years ago, which I believed I had already successfully appealed, so I’m not sure whether to go through the steps prescribed, as usual.

This is related to a PCN issued in 2015. I wrote an appeal letter at the time and have since not heard anything back in four years, so presumed they had accepted the mitigating circumstances of the case, this would suggest not.

I believe I have just had a Letter Before Claim letter from a solicitor acting on behalf of the Parking Company (it contained reply forms and 30 day time limit), so a bit confused as to what to do.

The added complication to this situation is that my mother owns the car and is the registered keeper, so it is her that is receiving these letters, and I am currently in Australia for a few months and so she is panicking as to what to do.

The solicitor letter states that she has to reply by June 4th. (I can provide a redacted version of the letter, or email directly to anyone who can help - I have read the newbies thread so knew not to post it here.)


The situation:

I received a PCN from a private parking company at my partners apartment building. He is also a user of the car and as such he registered it with the management company and received a parking permit for the car.

The reason given was permit not on display. The car was ticketed when I was on holiday. When I returned i found the ticket and the parking permit was in the footwell of the car. The parking permits were merely a laminated bit of paper issued by the management company and had no adhesive quality - admitted they were round so could fit in the tax disc holder, but at that time you were still required to display a tax disc, so this was obviously useless. I had attached it to the window using a sticky tab and it was attached when I left for holiday. It was February and cold so I presume the condensation must’ve caused the adhesive to come loose.

Whilst I accept that my permit was not ‘on display’ in the windscreen area, it was clearly visible in the footwell, but more than that as it is a registered scheme with the parking management that the enforcement company at a minimum should’ve had access to, with a very quick check they could’ve easily established that the car was permitted to be there, instead they chose to issue a ticket.

The enforcement scheme is there to protect residents rights to park at the property and yet it is the residents that are so often targeted.

Anyway - I wrote all this in an appeal letter to the company when I got back from holiday, back in 2015, and as I said as I hadn’t heard anything in over 4 years, I presumed this had been settled.

I can provide the names of the companies involved, but thought better to redact this info in the first instance, due to the specific nature of this case, it would be easily identifiable.


Some additional info that may be relevant:

The parking company had previously issued a PCN to this vehicle in Oct 2014, when my partner had just moved into the premises and was awaiting a permit (despite having a note on the windscreen saying as such, as directed by the management company who issue the permits - so to me their behaviour is questionable anyway!) I liaised with the management company who contacted the enforcement company and the PCN was cancelled, but I’m not sure if they would have just reused the information they had on file to issue this PCN, rather than getting it from the DVLA, or does this not apply as it was 2015?

I contacted the person in charge on the building regarding this PCN and they confirmed that I should just email the company stating that the car is permitted to be there, has a permit and they should check their lists and that should suffice (again as i heard nothing back I thought it did).

The company was also in dispute with the management company over the next few years, which I was unofficially told was because of the constant issuing of tickets to residents who were listed as permit holders.

The enforcement company has since changed (I have also received a PCN from this company, whilst unloading shopping, which I am currently being chased for and am currently ignoring, but that is for another time!).

I believe the lease references the right to the undesignated parking bays on a first come, first served basis - I can’t remember the wording, but I’m sure I can obtain the lease if needs be, and having read the Parking Cowboys thread, I believe this may be relevant.

Should I (my mum) fill out the reply forms, or request a SARS, or send through the mitigating information again? I feel there would be little point in contact the management company and they no longer contract with this company, and as so much time has lapsed it would suggest that they have sold the debt on?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, especially what i need to urgently do as the first step.

Many thanks in advance.


P.S. Apologies for the lack of capitalisation through this info especially with ‘I’...my shift keys aren’t working properly! I think I have picked most of them up, but I know it can be annoying!

Fruitcake

Your mother can name the driver and provide an address for service anywhere in the world if she so wishes. Provided the driver replies to the scammers stating they were indeed the driver, then your mother is out of the loop.

Is this an option, especially if the driver might be out of the country longer than they first thought? It might be an idea not to let the whole world how long the driver will be overseas in case the scammers read this (we know they monitor the forum) and try to accelerate the process.
The fact that the driver lives overseas is very relevant.

The other PCN should not be ignored.

The_Deep

Have you read this?

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

What did the lease/AST say about parking. Did it say that a permit was required and that a charge would be levied if one was not displayed?

If not, then the lease/AST would take primacy of contract and the scammer's made up "contract" would be meaningless.

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams so complain to your MP.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

MsSLP

I’m more questioning what we need to do to appeal this. I thought I had done, so do I resend the info in my original appeal, or is it past that point now I have a LBC?

I’m confused as to how to progress from this point onward.

Also I’m surprised they have started chasing this again 4 years late- seems nuts.

Coupon-mad

No, they always do this, we have TONS of 2015 cases right now.

Is it Gladstones, BW Legal or SCS Law?

PCM or UKPC or Link Parking or some other scumbag?

This is NOT an appeal stage, it's LBC stage and the NEWBIES FAQS thread covers this and the sticky thread tells you to get a SAR, to see their hand.

I think you should:

1. Get a SAR from the parking firm - you do that NOW by email to their DPO (all explained in the NEWBIES thread). No delaying it. Do that now. Also, state in the SAR that the DPO must erase your UK address data as you PERMANENTLY* live in Australia (show some sort of proof, like a flat rental) and they must now rectify your 'address for service' to OZ ADDRESS.

2. Then diarise to create an account if it's Gladstones or BW Legal and reply to them AS LATE AS POSSIBLE (i.e. on day 29) by email, telling them:

- you are seeking debt advice (this buys you ANOTHER 30 days!),

- you have requested a SAR from their parking firm scumbag

- you live in Australia (don't say 'for a few months'). State that your permanent 2019 domicile is in Australia and you do not live at the UK address and CANNOT be served with court documents there as it is not your house, it is a relative's (be vague).

- give your current 'address for service' in Australia and finish by telling them you know you are out of jurisdiction of the English courts and they must revert to their client and under GDPR rules, they and their clients must now erase the old address and rectify it to the Oz address if they really want to send letters to you and pay your costs to fly over...!


* yes I know, please don't reply disagreeing. Permanent is permanent for now!

MsSLP

Brilliant, thank you for this info. I’ll get on to writing a SARs email today.

So just clarify a few things- I need to write an email to the parking company, then also email the solicitors? So I don’t need to use the reply forms?

Also if I am stating I now live in Oz, do I declare that i’m the driver, not my mother? If I’m writing from her perspective, I can’t use the Oz angle, or do I write from my mum’s perspective and include something vague like the driver now lives in Australia (an Address can be provided)?

Also, what do I do then? Just wait for the SARS response?

Do I mention about the previous appeal points at all or just merely make a SARs request and leave it at that?

Appreciate any further clarification you can give- just don’t want to mess it up, as I’m not there to rectify it, and it’ll be my mum having to attend court if this progresses any further.

Many thanks

Coupon-mad

I need to write an email to the parking company,

Your MUM DOES, yes, tonight or tomorrow morning, to the parking firm's DPO using the contact shown in their privacy page.

then also email the solicitors?

Yes but later, diarise to update them as shown, close to the end of the 30 days from their letter. As I showed you above, saying all that.

So I don’t need to use the reply forms?

Never. They are official 'debt' reply forms but are not tailor made for non-debt scams.

The added complication to this situation is that my mother owns the car and is the registered keeper, so it is her that is receiving these letters,

Also if I am stating I now live in Oz, do I declare that i’m the driver, not my mother? If I’m writing from her perspective, I can’t use the Oz angle, or do I write from my mum’s perspective and include something vague like the driver now lives in Australia (an Address can be provided)?

Get your Mum to do this email as she is the rk and she's getting the letters.

ABSOLUTELY NOT the words in red. She can ONLY transfer liability under the POFA if she gives the NAME AND ADDRESS of the driver (you, in Oz) and she MUST NOT say ''address can be provided...''. It MUST be your postal address.

Being vague would ruin the entire thing and fail to transfer liability, and she'll be sued.

Do I mention about the previous appeal points at all or just merely make a SARs request and leave it at that?

SAR (not SARS, that's a horrendous virus!).

Your MUM writes by email to the DPO of the parking firm, what I said in the post above. This is NOTHING about the appeal but it's not just a SAR (I said above, exactly what she must write).

MsSLP

Hi Coupon-mad,

Thanks for your feedback on this I have been delayed in getting this done as my phone was stolen and only just got a
replacement today. (Not having the best of luck at the moment!)

As I missed getting this off on Friday and the next working day is Tuesday there, I thought I’d just check to make sure I had this correct rather than just fire one off on the bank holiday.

I have drafted an email to the DPO of the parking co and have redacted all the info that might identify the PCN.

Can you please let me know if I have missed anything or more importantly if I have included anything I shouldn’t?


*****************************************
For the attention of the DPO,


This is a subject access request.


I am requesting visibility of all personal information your company holds about myself, XXXX

I am currently being pursued by XXXX for PCN from 2014 on your company’s behalf.

The driver at the time the PCN was issued Name XXXX is now living in Australia. They do not have a postal address as they do not have a fixed address there, but they have a service address where they can be reached.

The address is XXXX

Under GDPR I also request that you and your clients erase the current address of XXXX now you have been provided with an alternative service address.

I look forward to hearing from you within the month.

Many thanks,
XXXX


*****************************************

(I genuinely am living here in Aus permanently and also genuinely don’t as yet have a fixed address- I am staying with friends.)

Coupon-mad-

Do I need to include the name of the driver to actually transfer? Is the information provided sufficient?

And I shouldn’t mention any other details of previously appealing, speaking with land owners and thinking this had been resolved as no correspondence since 2014- hence not transferring liability then?

I massively appreciate all the help you are providing.

And apologies for the time of these replies, the time difference is quite extreme!

Many thanks

MsSLP

Umkomaas

For the attention of the DPO,
This is a subject access request.

It's not a SAR, it's a 'Rectification Notice', you are not asking for any information.

The driver at the time the PCN was issued Name XXXX is now living in Australia. They do not have a postal address as they do not have a fixed address there, but they have a service address where they can be reached.

The address is XXXX

(I genuinely am living here in Aus permanently and also genuinely don’t as yet have a fixed address- I am staying with friends.)

You don't need to tell the PPC that it is not permanent. It is your current address. Don't even tell them you are staying with friends - no need for them to know any of those details.

Do I need to include the name of the driver to actually transfer?

Who otherwise will they transfer it to?

Coupon-mad

I agree, no telling them it's not permanent.

Just something like:

The driver has now been made aware of this archive PCN and their permanent domicile is in Australia and their full name and address for service is:

xxxxx xxxxxxx
xx xxxxx xxxxxxx
xxxxx xxxxx
xxxxxxxxx
xxxx

Then confirm that the keeper knows that they have transferred any potential liability under the POFA and have no reason under any applicable law to pay or reply again, and require now that the data is rectified and the old address and keeper's name erased.

MsSLP

Brilliant thank you both for your help. My mum has now sent the email to the DPO at the parking co, and asked that them and all their clients rectify and delete the info they hold relating to her.

Does she still need to contact the solicitors (as suggested before) to say that she’s transferred liability and that they also need to delete their records?

The solicitor’s letter states a reply is needed by June 2nd.

Coupon mad- you earlier said to email to say seeking debt advice and asked for a SAR, as liability has now been transferred and it was a rectification notice rather than a SAR, do I need to tell them any of this? ...or would an email stating liability has been transferred suffice?

Thanks