Elderly Mum (recently widowed) now dealing with money - advice.

Savvy_Sue

engineer_amy wrote: »

My grandparents each have a bank account, my mother got the accounts converted to joint accounts with herself added as the second account holder (with my grandparents permission of course). it meant she was able to manage the accounts on their behalf via telephone without having to get power of attorney.
It also means that should either grandparent pass away, the account automatically passes to my mother without having to wait for probate. In this situation, my mother is an only child and the grandparents wills leave everything to my mother anyway, so it is a relatively straightforward scenario.
it may not work for other situations with multiple children/beneficiaries.

Agree with this.

DigForVictory wrote: »

Work with her, and her ways.
I'd be very very careful with a joint account as you might be accused of elder abuse & it's quite tricky to defend yourself. Much simpler to go along with her preferred ways, perhaps suggesting you take her to the cashpoint first. This month. She may not be in best state to discuss power of attorney.

I've always seen visiting the bank or post office as a healthy thing - not only does the individual get the fresh air & exercise but also social stimulation, you have another perspective on how scatty she might be getting & she has a local network of people who are used to seeing her out & about who should speak out if she goes missing.
(In a village I used to live in, the postmaster had a very robust relationship with the local police superintendent & if someone failed to collect their pension or hadn't been seen fro a couple of days, doors were knocked on by someone in uniform accompanied by the least startling senior.)

I do understand you worrying she might be mugged for her cash, but I think her having a credit card for the first time might be more risky to her financial health.

Move at the speed of the slowest in the convoy. It's frustrating but the best defence.

And this.

Mojisola wrote: »

When Dad started to need help like this, I went on his account as a signatory - it meant I could use his account but didn't have any claim to the money as I would have had with a joint account.

And this.

Basically, work out what's right for you, and don't rush mum.

For regular bills, I personally think Direct Debits are invaluable. They don't get forgotten, you can see what went out on the bank statement, and if there are ever problems the banks are generally really on the ball about cancelling and refunding - the Direct Debit guarantee.

Pollycat

fudged wrote: »

My father (83yrs) passed away recently, and was the sole financial advisor, payer, banker in the home - did everything money related with the household, paying bills etc. My mother (76yrs) had only a cash card and cheque book, until recently got a credit card.

She has not gotten on the tech train, my father did, and can't see her doing online banking or even wanting her to etc.
She still wishes to pay everything by putting a cheque in the post, and not until the last minute.

My quandry is going forward, she would wish me to now and again do the shopping or I will get items for the household that she requires - how do I get her to pay for these without it hitting my bank ,and getting her to pay me in cash or a cheque or a delay etc.

Just want to get a routine or plan in place for these kinds of situations.

eg Could I get a card for her bank account. Most likely not, but is there some easier method for transfering cash back to myself. I want to say online banking, and I would do it on her behalf but think this isn't right for security purposes - me accessing her account.

I don't want her visiting the local Post Office or bank more than she needs to.

What options would be open.


Thanks for any insights or hints.

My sister has a card for my Mum's bank account (NatWest). No need for a joint account.
I believe the card actually has my sister's name on it.

IIRC, it was a bit of a faff that involved form filling and a personal visit to the bank by my sister but it means she can order things for Mum and do her shopping without the need for Mum to actually pay her back as it comes straight out of Mum's account.

trailingspouse

As an aside, to anyone out there with elderly relatives who organise themselves this way - please please try to get the 'finance' person in the partnership to explain stuff to the 'non-finance' person. It really isn't a kindness to do everything for them. Equally, try to get the 'housekeeping' person to pass on their knowledge too - it's not unusual for a man who's lost his wife to realise he hasn't a clue how to cook for himself, do a load of washing, or clean the bathroom.

elsien

MoneySeeker1 wrote: »

I guess one possible way forward would be to get a "Power of Attorney" ??

But there is a big cautionary note to sound here. That being as to whether there are any other close relatives that should have this instead or as well (there can be more than one person appointed).

Another big cautionary note being that anyone close should be notified officially and have the chance of having 6 weeks to raise any objections in.

Final cautionary note being that any other close relatives should be kept fully informed of what is happening re your mother, eg keep accounts and share the information with close relatives (so there can't be any suspicions you are spending someone else's money as if it were your own).

The reason I found this out being that my parents have (so I've been verbally told by the person concerned only) given this "power of attorney" to someone married to another close relative. I was never officially notified. I am finding it extremely difficult to get any information out of the relative-by-marriage.

So, if you decide on this route, do do it properly/openly/etc, rather than "keeping secrets"/creating bad feeling/etc.

To add a caveat to this:
It is up to the person themselves who they give power of attorney to, regardless of the opinions of other family members.
It is also up the person whether they want anyone to be notified or not

engineer_amy

trailingspouse wrote: »

As an aside, to anyone out there with elderly relatives who organise themselves this way - please please try to get the 'finance' person in the partnership to explain stuff to the 'non-finance' person. It really isn't a kindness to do everything for them. Equally, try to get the 'housekeeping' person to pass on their knowledge too - it's not unusual for a man who's lost his wife to realise he hasn't a clue how to cook for himself, do a load of washing, or clean the bathroom.

Invaluable information here! My parents had pretty even duties/control over the finances, but when my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer, he spent a bit of time transferring any personal accounts/utilities/cards into my mums name, making sure she had access to everything so there wouldn't be any issues when he was too ill or passed away. sorting out probate and IHT was a doddle after this. Understandably, its not so easy if someone passes suddenly, so its important for each partner to at least have an understanding of the finance, direct debits, online accounts.


I have a colleague who deals with the family finances, her husband's salary goes into the joint account and that's the last he sees of it, she does everything and he doesn't even have online access or a card. She will transfer an "allowance" into his personal account for his day to day spending, presents etc. and he is perfectly happy for tem to operate in this way, but would be up s!!! creek if anything happened to her. (and they are only in their early 40s)

TBagpuss

OP, I would sit down with your mum to discuss options.

A power of attorney would be a sensible thing to consider. It doesn't prevent your mum dealing with her own money but means that you can do so as well, for her benefit. So you could set up online banking to deal with bills etc, and it would also make it easier in the future if she were to become unwell and unable to manage her own affairs.

Neither you nor she has to tell other family members about the POA or provide them with any finacial information, but if she does give you POA, it isgood practice for you to get into the habiot of keeping clear records of when and how you use it. That way, if your mum, or at a later stage (say if she does become incpacitated) has any questions, you will have records.

Another possibility it to help her to set up direct debits or standing orders for her regualr bills, which reduces the amount of of times she needs to send off cheques etc.

Listen to what she says about why she does it that way. It may be that she finds it easier to keep track, in which case she might find it useful to have you help her create a spreadsheet or other record of her regualr income and outgoings so she knows how much she has left for non-essential spending.
You could even help her to set up a second bank account if this would make it easier for her to manage (e.g. one account which her pension / other income goes into, and all standard bills come out of. A second account, with money trnasferred in by standing order evey week / month which she uses for day to day spending. (and if she ecides that the best way for her is to witdraw cash each week and spend that.

MoneySeeker1

Absolutely - to the keeping of clear records. Then neither mother (or anyone else) need feel suspicious about what is happening.

I know that a friend of mine has spent the last couple of years or so holding the attorney role for a sister of hers (now dead). There doesn't seem to be a legal obligation - yet- to keep clear records, but she kept exact accounts anyway and all receipts etc and could have proved everything was being managed efficiently and honestly at a moments notice if need be.

If an attorney does this - then there are much less likely to be questions as to how they are handling things from anyone (the person concerned or anyone else).

molerat

trailingspouse wrote: »

As an aside, to anyone out there with elderly relatives who organise themselves this way - please please try to get the 'finance' person in the partnership to explain stuff to the 'non-finance' person.

From experience, good luck with that one !

Keep_pedalling

engineer_amy wrote: »

My grandparents each have a bank account, my mother got the accounts converted to joint accounts with herself added as the second account holder (with my grandparents permission of course). it meant she was able to manage the accounts on their behalf via telephone without having to get power of attorney.
It also means that should either grandparent pass away, the account automatically passes to my mother without having to wait for probate. In this situation, my mother is an only child and the grandparents wills leave everything to my mother anyway, so it is a relatively straightforward scenario.
it may not work for other situations with multiple children/beneficiaries.

Do you Grand parents own a house? If so what happens if one of them loses mental capacity and the other needs to sell to buy something more suitable, or they both lose mental capacity and the house needs to be sold to pay for care costs? What happens if your mother, through accident or illness loses capacity?

Joint accounts provide a day to day solution, but only a LPA will help for a major crisis. I would argue that as well as a will most adults should have an LPA in place.

chesky

This is a plea to all women of middle age and over. If you're married or have a partner who you've left all the "money stuff", DO get involved in it. It's much easier to deal with if you approach it slowly and with help from your old man. The OPs mother is only a year older than I am so, if she's still got her mental faculties, SHE CAN DO IT. With help. Perhaps the local Age Concern or Age UK can give classes. As a CAB adviser, I see many women in this situation and it breaks my heart.