italian parking fine

jvb1

Hi everyone, The link (disguised a bit as I'm a new member of the forum) at the bottom of this post is quite a long article (deals with parking as well as speeding) but worth looking at as it has some technical info which I have used to challenge CLI. I am not a lawyer so tho' I've looked at this quite carefully, you need to make up your own minds.
I got a spurious parking fine in February 2017 from Florence Polizia Municipale, but the first I knew about it was a 'notice of offence' (Verbale di Accertamento di violazione') in July '17 via regular post.
I didn't reply (the 'Verbale' is not an 'official' fine and can be 'informally' challenged, and one is not obliged to pay it tho' you can if you want a quiet life or are guilty), and heard nothing until CLI contacted me this week, fully 3 years and 2 months after the 'offense'. 
It seems the correct procedure is for the Polizia to follow up with a registered letter (see another post above) within 210 days of the offense (or some Italians think it is 360 days) which is best not ignored (see link). 
I never received this registered letter, and it is only on receipt of that that one can 'formally' appeal. (Not a straightforward process, details on link!) The other (deliberate?) disadvantage of the Italians taking such a long time to send out the official fines (if at all) is that you can't get the benefit of early payment.
I am waiting to hear CLI's response to the fact that no registered mail was received.
By the way CLI are not bailiffs. I was sent the following paraphrased pertinent observation by a bailiff acquaintance:
I do not know CLI but would
recommend writing to them telling that you are not aware of any court
order and therefore it appears to you that they have no authority to
collect an alleged foreign debt unless they can show you under what
statutory power they are entitled to do so.
The point is that IF a registered letter WAS received it is more likely that a court order may have been issued.
I'll let you know when I hear further from CLI.
The link needs the https plus colon plus two forward slashes then: italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/

pogofish

Except that CLI "International" look to be yet another one-man-band shyster operation whose hub of international litigation is a drylining firm's industrial unit behind a Howdens in deepest darkest Kent. 

Amongst their other services, CLI will even sell you an "international letter before action", despite it being highly unlikely they could instigate any legal action in the UK, never mind abroad.

Why do people keep taking these scams seriously - The only reason the italians got-shot of this to a UK debt collector is because they had no interest in pursuing it whatsoever and the pittance CLI offered them was better than nothing at all!

mobileron

Ignore it as you have been told.

Ad_Feen

I too have received a letter from "CLI International Debt Collectors" 

The letter relates to an incident in October 2016 and requests payment of £225 for a traffic fine of EUR131.78 (after their various 'costs')

Upon contacting them, I was told that there is a second fine! - this one for EUR94.70, for which I await their additional extortionate costs...

CLI have produced letters (headed by emo.nivi.it) from 2017 and 2018 which they allege were sent to me for payment. 

Italy has a system called European Municipality Outsourcing emo.nivi.it which manages fines on behalf of Italian municipalities. When I enter the fines into their system nothing comes up. I've emailed their general contact address for information

I found a Guardian article, but unlike the complainant in it, I was indeed driving the car at the time of the incidents (MSE won't let me post the link, just google Credit Limits International + Guardian)

I would love to follow the advice in the article and simply ignore the letters, but am somewhat scared by receiving letters from a debt collector. A little Googling brought up threads on TripAdvisor and here, MSE. It looks like this sort of thing is going around and it’s a little easier said than done to simply ignore it… I’m going to see if I get a response from EMO and follow up, but any more advice would be welcomed

pogofish

Go and look at all the debt collector threads in the Parking Tickets Subforum here for reinforcement. Communicating with them is a mugs game. Similarly, going to EMO is a complete waste of time as any debt has been sold-on for a pittance and they have given-up all title to it, so can do nothing more to resolve this.

efc40

Ad_Feen said:

I too have received a letter from "CLI International Debt Collectors" 

The letter relates to an incident in October 2016 and requests payment of £225 for a traffic fine of EUR131.78 (after their various 'costs')

Upon contacting them, I was told that there is a second fine! - this one for EUR94.70, for which I await their additional extortionate costs...

CLI have produced letters (headed by emo.nivi.it) from 2017 and 2018 which they allege were sent to me for payment. 

Italy has a system called European Municipality Outsourcing emo.nivi.it which manages fines on behalf of Italian municipalities. When I enter the fines into their system nothing comes up. I've emailed their general contact address for information

I found a Guardian article, but unlike the complainant in it, I was indeed driving the car at the time of the incidents (MSE won't let me post the link, just google Credit Limits International + Guardian)

I would love to follow the advice in the article and simply ignore the letters, but am somewhat scared by receiving letters from a debt collector. A little Googling brought up threads on TripAdvisor and here, MSE. It looks like this sort of thing is going around and it’s a little easier said than done to simply ignore it… I’m going to see if I get a response from EMO and follow up, but any more advice would be welcomed

don't pay them anything and just file but ignore the letters, eventually they will give it up they have no power to enforce the fine and are just trying it on.

i haven't heard anything from them for a long time now.

drjay77

Hi.  Just checking what happened with these stories as I've also got CLI chasing me for 5 year old Italian traffic violations.   Their letters have progressed beyond door-step agents to a pre-action protocol for debt claims which I understand is the pre-cursor to a country court judgment.   The newbies sticky says to ignore debt collectors but it also says a pre-action protocol for debt claims means a CCJ is likely so I'm no longer comfortable doing nothing.  I sent them a letter asking for proper proof of the original credit agreement, deed of assignment etc plus the correct info they must send as per the consumer credit act.  I'm awaiting their response but I do want to know if there's anyone who has had a CCJ from CLI or if this really is just their latest attempt to scare me.

giraffe69

But you can't get a CCJ unless
a. they take you to court and
b. they win and
c. you decline to pay after the court has instructed you to

pogofish

Please read Post four of the Newbies Sticky in the Parking Tickets Subform - which covers this kind of debt collectors in their entirety.

There is nothing different about this lot in any way...!

elisas

jvb1 said:

Hi everyone, The link (disguised a bit as I'm a new member of the forum) at the bottom of this post is quite a long article (deals with parking as well as speeding) but worth looking at as it has some technical info which I have used to challenge CLI. I am not a lawyer so tho' I've looked at this quite carefully, you need to make up your own minds.
I got a spurious parking fine in February 2017 from Florence Polizia Municipale, but the first I knew about it was a 'notice of offence' (Verbale di Accertamento di violazione') in July '17 via regular post.
I didn't reply (the 'Verbale' is not an 'official' fine and can be 'informally' challenged, and one is not obliged to pay it tho' you can if you want a quiet life or are guilty), and heard nothing until CLI contacted me this week, fully 3 years and 2 months after the 'offense'. 
It seems the correct procedure is for the Polizia to follow up with a registered letter (see another post above) within 210 days of the offense (or some Italians think it is 360 days) which is best not ignored (see link). 
I never received this registered letter, and it is only on receipt of that that one can 'formally' appeal. (Not a straightforward process, details on link!) The other (deliberate?) disadvantage of the Italians taking such a long time to send out the official fines (if at all) is that you can't get the benefit of early payment.
I am waiting to hear CLI's response to the fact that no registered mail was received.
By the way CLI are not bailiffs. I was sent the following paraphrased pertinent observation by a bailiff acquaintance:
I do not know CLI but would
recommend writing to them telling that you are not aware of any court
order and therefore it appears to you that they have no authority to
collect an alleged foreign debt unless they can show you under what
statutory power they are entitled to do so.
The point is that IF a registered letter WAS received it is more likely that a court order may have been issued.
I'll let you know when I hear further from CLI.
The link needs the https plus colon plus two forward slashes then: italychronicles.com/speeding-fines-in-italy/

Hello - can you share how this developed? I'm in the same situation now and unsure if I should respond to CLI asking for more details about the fine or ignore, the fine is from August 2020 so over three years ago..