Motor insurance - car hire question

paperdoll_2

My daughter's car was damaged by a young, but thankfully, insured learner driver. He was covered by his mother's insurance policy and they admitted liability. Their insurance company (Swift) have agreed the claim and are also covering the cost of a hire car for my daughter while her car is being repaired.

She learnt today that her car is at last ready for collection, but she is not able to collect it and return the hire car until Tuesday morning. This is due to work and other committments and also to the fact that the car hire company is closed on Sat afternoons and all day Sunday. She has explained this to Swift and they told her they will only cover the cost of the car hire until her car is repaired. In other words she will have to pay the cost for Sat, Sun and Mon. I would mention that she spent about an hour on the phone speaking to various people who weren't particularly helpful and the last person she spoke to told her her insurers would pay for it. She then rang her insurers who said he was talking rubbish!

She has told them all the way through the claim that her work takes her out of town for most of the week. She certainly wants to get her own car back and get rid of the hire car which isn't a particularly good one as soon as possible. but circumstances mean she can't do this until Tuesday.

Are they within their rights to insist she pays for the additional three days out of her own pocket?

lisyloo

This is due to work and other committments and also to the fact that the car hire company is closed on Sat afternoons and all day Sunday.

You may already have asked these questions so sorry if this is repetition of stuff you've already been through.

Do the hire car company offer a delivery/collection service?
Can you leave the car outside their premises on Saturday (issue here if the car is damaged).
In my view if they provide no way for you to "return" the car (by that I mean safely signed off by a person and not dumped at their premises where it can be damaged by 3rd parties) then they cannot expect you to pay for this if it is available for use.

Another point is that she hasn't been given much motice (was she forewarned of a possible date?).

Does she have legal cover for uninsured losses?
If she does end up having to pay then ask the legal company to reclaim her uninsured losses (e.g. extra costs) from the 3rd party insurers.

paperdoll_2

Thanks for those helpful comments, I'll go through them all with her today. She will be getting some compensation for the time she has to take off work for taking and collecting her car and also for the collection and return of the hire car, so if they insist on her paying for the extra days she can take it up with the legal company.

Thanks again

lisyloo

Going back to your original question of "are they within their rights" then the answer is yes.

The contract they have is that you can have a hire car for x number of days not until it's convenient. Anything extra that was necessary but not insured would have to fall to the legal company to re-claim.

Having said that I would still have a problem with the short notice given if you got told on a Friday to take it back that day.

paperdoll_2

I thought they were within their rights, too.

But then again, it's not that she can't collect until Tuesday because it isn't convenient., it's because she can't. She HAD to be somewhere else (out of town) this morning and because of the nature of her job she is unable to cancel any sessions on Monday. She can't be blamed if the hire car company closes before she can get back every evening and at midday on Sat and all day Sunday. So it's a moot point.

I think we should try going down the line of "goodwill" gesture and short notice.

Mr_Bear_2

im sorry i disagree
she is only entitled for the hire vehicle until hers is repaired

smugbear2007

i think i can help you on this one as i have worked for the hire car firm you are speaking of

what time friday were u informed of having to return? am or pm? the rental co will have all updated notes on system so no porky pies ;-)

1. swift is paying for the car rental and the car rental company is the provider. ie a 3rd party who is providing a service to you but being paid by swift. therefore SOMEONE has to pay the rental co to the date until the car comes back. if you are unable to get swift to pay then you will be liable for the charges 90 % of the time this is the case.

2. depends on the branch but i personally (have a heart) and will be reasonable with the time allowed. ie if you were notified friday morning the car would have to be back saturday then that is reasonable time so i would 100 % bill the customer if they brought it back after saturday. however if i notified them at 4pm monday that the car would have to be back 6pm monday(only leaves 2 hours notice) i would allow them until am of the next day with no charge, as i have been sloppy with my customer calls.
also the rental company will update notes every time they contact u informing you of the car having to be back so lying is pointless.

3. the best way of approaching this is to bully swift into paying any way you can. eventually someone there should eventually agree to pay if you are super nice and explain that your daughter was 500 miles away. also lie and say that you told them this was the case when you took the car............
if the above doesnt work then im afraid its damaged limitations and you will unfortunately have to pay, but the weekend is a dramatically reduced price which could be even cheaper than the insurance rate. ie small cars 12.99/day for friday to monday, and im sure if you were nice you could get them to do tuesday at the same rate.... so at worst should only cost 48 quid if you are in a matiz/group A car.

although the rental car company should be sympathetic to your situation someone HAS to pay them, as its not their fault your daughter had work commitments. i know its the case where most people arent at fault they think it should be different but unfortunately thats not the case. its the swift ins co you should shout at and not the rental company.

good luck

lisyloo

But then again, it's not that she can't collect until Tuesday because it isn't convenient., it's because she can't.

That may be so, but it's not the rental companies fault (as smugbear says).
If it is not possible to return it on time then it's the driver at fault that should ultimately pay via a claim on their insurance.
I don't think it's reasonable at all to expect the hire car company to foot the bill if you don't have insurance for them to get paid.

She can't be blamed if the hire car company closes before she can get back every evening and at midday on Sat and all day Sunday. So it's a moot point.

Sorry to sound harsh, but it sounds like she bought an insurance policy that did not provide a service that is convenient for her at all.
If she has a job that menas she's travelling a lot then perhaps she should have researched this and got a policy that used a hire car company that had hours and a location more convenient to her.
Of course this is very harsh and I'm playing devils advocate, but basically I'm making the point that her insurance policy entitles her to what they agreed to provide. If it doesn't suit her then legally speaking that's tough - it's what she bought.
Any costs that's still reasonable but not insured should still be claimed from the 3rd party.

I think we should try going down the line of "goodwill" gesture and short notice.

I think it's very short notice to expect someone with a job to deliver the car the same day.
Did they give no indication beforehand of when the car would be ready?
Did she not phone them to find out?
If I was in this posistion and I heard nothing then I would be phoning them each day.week for an estimate i.e. planning in advance.
I'm not sure we have the full picture but I agee it's short notice and you should pursue this.

paperdoll_2

Swift isn't her insurance company, they're the insurers of the person who crashed into her. They are the company paying the repair bill and the car hire bill. They also decided which repairers and which hire car company she had to use, nothing to do with her. She is claiming against them, not on her own policy.

She was ringing the car repairers all last week asking them when her car would be ready, it's been in there 3 weeks. It wasn't until Friday around lunchtime when she either rang them or they rang her to let her know she could collect it.

And incidentally, all the way through this she has made it very clear to Swift, to the repairers and to Enterprise that she works out of town and her final session finishes no earlier than 6.30pm.

lisyloo

Swift isn't her insurance company, they're the insurers of the person who crashed into her. They are the company paying the repair bill and the car hire bill. They also decided which repairers and which hire car company she had to use, nothing to do with her. She is claiming against them, not on her own policy.

Sorry if I/we misunderstood.
Normally in accidents the liability takes a while to get settled and normally it's your own comprehensive insurance that pays out until that point and then once the arguments are settled, so are the bills.
It's unusual for the other insurance company to pay for everything and sort it out.

The fact remains though if the other parties insurance will not pay for the hire care that is reasonably required then it has to be claimed from the 3rd party directly.

She was ringing the car repairers all last week asking them when her car would be ready

Did they give her any indication of when it might be ready so that she could plan ahead (presumably not from what you have said).

It wasn't until Friday around lunchtime when she either rang them or they rang her to let her know she could collect it.

Unacceptable notice in my view as she can't be expected to drop everything. I would be negotiating and then formally complaining.

However the insurance will be limited by the contract.
It sounds to me like the 3rd party is liable for the extra car hire required but not insured hence you have to go through the "uninsured losses route".
Are there any other "uninsured losses".
If so then just add it to the claim.

And incidentally, all the way through this she has made it very clear to Swift, to the repairers and to Enterprise that she works out of town and her final session finishes no earlier than 6.30pm.

I totally sympathise but insurance is a contract and if it says they pay for x days (or until the car is repared) then that is what they will do as that's what the 3rd party has paid for.
It is likely that HIS insurance cover for a hire car "until it's repaired" not until it's convenient for return.
There is a difference between being liable and insured.
In this case the 3rd party is liable for your daughters costs but he's not insured completely for them, there is a shortfall.

In summary I'd be doing 2 things
1) Negotiating nicely then formally complaining to their insurers.
2) Putting in a claim for the extra via the "uninsured losses" route i.e. legal cover.

Given the turnaround times involved I'd be doing both simultaneously.

smugbear2007

the third party insurance swift cover should pay for the extension if anyone. although you let enterprise know of the working patterns, swift can off hire the car at any point (normally when repaired car is ready), so enterprise will have rung you as soon as they were aware of this.

basically get swiftcover to extend because i know for a fact that enterprise will not refund the deposit until the extension comes through, and if it doesnt then you would be charged, so negotiate the rate with erac before you leave, IF the extension doesnt come through, and you have to pay.

one other way could be to speak to the bodyshop and claim it was their fault that you werent notified in time despite your efforts at chasing them. this way the bodyshop would send a new reservation to enterprise for the outstanding days, which if you kicked off enough would be possible as customer service scores are important to bodyshops.

i do sympathise but if enterprise have told you that the car has to come back or you are liable for charges before the weekend then you had a choice, albeit a hard one but you had one... it wasnt like they notified you AFTER you had brought the car back. if this was the case then you would stand a good chance of erac writing off the extra days as they hadnt told you the consequences of returning late. erac policy tends to be that if they have done their bit and notified you before the event then it is your problem to either sort the return of the car or get the extension, within a REASONABLE time(1day absolute max, not full weekend)
if they wrote off days like this then they would make no money at all.
kick off at swiftcover is my advice, threaten legal action as erac can give you a full receipt for charges.
btw most TP insurers are quite reasonable with these requests as they are only too happy at paying for you a car at a dirt cheap rate as they are petrified of credit hire claims so they are being harsh IMO. call again and you may get someone in the call centre that is in a better mood and will extend it...ive known it happen before.
in short............
1. get swiftcover to pay
2. get bodyshop to pay as you werent given notice/communication was poor
if 1 or 2 dont materialise then
3. pay for it yourself at weekend rate and try and claim it back

just dont expect
4. erac write extra days off cos i am afraid to say it wont happen.