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residential parking - Recieved PCN for not displaying my Permit

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residential parking - Recieved PCN for not displaying my Permit

edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
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Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
62 posts
10 Posts First Anniversary
edited 30 November -1 at 1:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
Hi all,

Could do will a little help.

I have received a ‘Parking Charge Notice’ for parking behind my property of over 20 years. I was aware of the site being managed by a parking company but failed to take my permit out of the glovebox after working a night shift. The operator does have permission to operate on the land by my Housing Association.

I received a PCN to registered keeper 9 days from alleged contravention. I admitted I was the driver but denied any contravention ever occurred for the following reasons:

• The Contravention did not occur. In Jan, my vehicle: a '*************' was not parked at the location as stated by the parking operator. My vehicle was in fact parked behind my home of over 23 years: "Address hidden." The two addresses are completely different. They are separate carparks, with a six-foot fence dividing them (no through road), they are on separate roads wit separate post codes. Therefore, the PCN should be void, as I was not parked in the location as stated on the PCN. To get to one car park to another you would have to negotiate two separate roads, some 158 feet apart.

The land owner has requested that the PCN be cancelled, the parking company are ignoring this.

• The parking company are a limited company whom have obligations such as informing ‘Companies House’ if they change their address to which their company is registered. The parking company moved out of their address in January 2018. Yet, failed to inform companies House of the change when they updated their accounts in February 2018/2019. even signed two conformation statement. The Parking company are operating, issuing tickets from an address in which they no longer occupy which is illegal. The old address is even on the PCN.

I have spoken to local residents and photographic evidence that they no longer occupy the address to which their company is registered to.

• The signs displayed did not conform to current regulations. The sign displayed at the front of the scheme was their old company’s sign with a piece of paper stuck over old details. The size of the text was too small, not illuminated and displayed a company registration number which was not tiered to a current address of which the company occupy.

• The land owner (housing association), Have signs larger in size and depicting larger text which have been displayed before I moved in in 1995. The main sign at the entrance to our scheme states (This carpark is for residents and visitors only), I had parked within the parameters of this sign as I am a resident. In order for CMS's signs to become enforceable, This older sign sign should have been removed.

• I had parked within the confines of my primary contract (tenancy agreement- issued Dec 1995). The idea behind primacy is that a contract cannot be unilaterally altered by one party without the permission of the other. In the case of residential parking, the lease is the key document. I have unfettered rights to park in the carpark: "Address hidden" with no mention of permit or parking system. This cannot be changed or altered in anyway by the parking company, as in the case of "Link Parking v Mrs P: case No C7GF50J7."

a) Link Parking V Mrs P - it was found that the Parking company could not override the tenants right to park requiring a permit.


b) In Joseph V Homegaurd 2016, case no: B9GF09AR. It was established "Parking Eye v Bevis 2015 (UKSC67), Does not apply to residential parking. therefore, brings the penalty doctrine back into play.


I have evidence that the sign at the entrance to the scheme does not comply to current regulations. Its a sign with the parking companies details stuck on with paper. My last recorded evidence was 12 March. Although the sign was changed on around the
20th March 2019

The parking company gave evidence to the IAS in the way of an 'image' of a sign and a sign in 'a van'. This was on the 08th March, neither signs were displayed at the scheme at the time of the alleged contravention. The main sign was changed around the 20th March to the sign which they falsely stated to the IAS was displayed at the time of the alleged contravention.

The IAS/ IPC have ignored the fact that the evidence was false and insufficient, that the Company's registered address is no longer in use (which has to be displayed on the PCN)

The matter is now with ZZPS...

I appreciate any help you maybe able to offer.
«13456710

Replies

  • The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
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    Looks good, get your MP on board, these days of these scammers are numbered. PPCs have no place in residential car parks, and if the HA support you they would crash and burn if they were daft enough to take you to court. Involve you MP, they are aware of these scammers, who have no place in residential car parks.

    On 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

    Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    I have complained to the DVLA, Companies House, HMRC and my local MP.. Awaiting a response.

    As far as I am aware it is illegal for a Limited company to trade from an address they no longer occupy. This will be the basis of my defence.

    A PCN needs to have their registered address on it. The fact that the company no longer occupies this address should be against the code of conduct (I need to look into this more.)

    The false evidence which was given to and accepted by the IAS should further strengthen my defence.
  • The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
    16.8K posts
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    As far as I am aware it is illegal for a Limited company to trade from an address they no longer occupy. This will be the basis of my defence.

    I very much doubt that a Judge would be interested, make primacy of contract you main argument.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    Thank you. I will, Im glad I still have the original document.

    I find it hard that a company whom are operating illegally are allowed to get away with operating like this, when they are breaking regulations set in Parliament and Their own Code of conduct.
  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
    22.1K posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
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    A company does not have to trade from their Registered Address.

    Many companies use their accountant's or their solicitor's address as their Registered Address.
  • Half_wayHalf_way Forumite
    5.5K posts
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
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    Youve been parking there for 20 years, have you always had a permit?
    why do you need a permit?
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
  • Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    Around 2007, my landlord introduces MPC, I had them removed as they were a 'Cowboy Company' as stated by the BBC's inside our programme.

    Over the last few years, the Land lord has now contracted this new company, which I have never agreed to.

    I tend to park on the road as I am in a flat and I can see my vehicle, although there is not always space. We have had loads of breakings, cart thief and general problems on our scheme.

    I did have a permit but working shifts I did not remember to display it...

    My argument it, at no point in my tenancy agreement goes it mention that I am required to display a 'Permit' to park my vehicle behind my property.

    The signs which were displayed at the time, did not conform to current regulations. Hence why the parking company lied on what signs were displayed

    I am pretty sure, although this needs checking... The PCN must contain certain information.. This includes their company number and registered address. They are issuing PCN's from an address which they no longer occupy. .

    They gave the complete wrong address of where my car was parked. They did not even try and say that tey made a mistake... Instead they said the two carparks are one... Even though on separate roads in separate postcodes. The car park has a six foot fence dividing them, there is no through road, Although they can argue latter that its the same land.

    Im no expert... Im just looking at facts
  • Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    Thank you Keith,

    This company is still trading from this address they moved out of in January 2018, they hav even signed two 'Conformation Statements' (the old annual returns), confirming this, but no change of address.

    Signage mist contain certain information, to adhere to the code, such as their company number. The address and registered number is even on the PCN which they issued, which, as far as I am aware, has to be displayed to conform to the code of practice.

    My question is: How can a company issue an Invoice (PCN) from an address in which they no longer occupy?

    A limited company has certain responsibilities as set out in the 'Companies Act 2006' this company has not met these responsibilities.. Therefore, inn the eyes of the law, are trading illegally.

    The company are not trading from any other address, other than one in which they do not own... Companies House has confirmed that there has been no change since March 2016. There own PCN confirms this.


    As I said, I am not sure on this but I feel this is good grounds... Although I am not that clued up and its great to receive others point of view.

    Thank you.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
    86.7K posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
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    Same firm as this one?

    https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=5989344

    You need to concentrate on your primacy of contract as a resident, and have a go at the MA to cancel this scam PCN and to accept that you do NOT agree to the permit scheme, put that in writing and tell them they cannot impose such an onerous scheme on residents with existing parking rights.

    Are the signs as bad/small print as in that linked case? Take photos now.

    Ignore ZZPS entirely.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • edited 13 April 2019 at 12:52PM
    Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    edited 13 April 2019 at 12:52PM
    Coupon-mad...

    yes, same firm, thank you for link :)

    The signs were really bad.. a Piece of paper (small) stuck onto a sign. The sign did not conform to current regulations. My last photograph was time/ date stamped the 12th March. The parking Operator changed their signs on the 20th March to bring them in line with the false evidence they supplied to the IAS on the 8th of march. I can prove they gave false evidence to the IAS, denying me a fair appeal.

    My trail thought:

    A company needs to include their registered number on signs and address on Invoices, a PCN is an Invoice. A company must always have a 'Registered Address' Both are set out in the 'Companies Act 2006'. This operator has 'no' registered address therefore are operating illegally.

    If they are operating illegally, then how can they bring a claim against me?

    Company's registered address:

    The parking company is operating from and sent me an Invoice from an address they no longer occupy and dont own: "**********************"’ as seen on the Invoice you sent me dated January 2019. Therefore have broken regulations as set in ‘Companies Act 2006.’ Which states: -

    2006 c. 46. Part 6, General, Section 86: -

    A company's registered office-

    (1) A. company must at all times have a registered office to which all communications and notices may be addressed.

    The parking company have issued an Invoice from an address they no longer Occupy. They moved out of their registered address in January 2018 yet filed two ‘Conformation Statements and their annual report’ in February 2018 and 2019 with companies house. CMs have broken regulations as set in the ‘Companies Act 2006.’ Which states: -

    2006 c. 46. Part 6, General, Section 87: -

    Change of address of registered office-

    (1) A company may change the address of its registered office by giving notice to the registrar.

    (2) The change takes effect upon the notice being registered by the registrar, but until the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date on which it is registered a person may validly serve any document on the company at the address previously registered.

    (3) For the purposes of any duty of a company—

    (a)to keep available for inspection at its registered office any register, index or other document, or
    (b)to mention the address of its registered office in any document, (this includes invoices)

    So if a Company needs to have a 'Registered Address' to operate as set in the 'Companies Act 2006' How can they bring a legal claim against me?

    The Invoice (PCN) is sent from an Address in which they no longer Occupy.. Therefor the Invoice should be void... An Invoice must contain the companies registered address...

    The above is Law.
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