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residential parking - Recieved PCN for not displaying my Permit

edited 30 November -1 at 12:00AM in Parking Tickets, Fines & Parking
94 replies 3.5K views
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  • edited 22 May 2019 at 2:51PM
    FruitcakeFruitcake Forumite
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    edited 22 May 2019 at 2:51PM
    Did you send the LBA by any type of signed for service? If so, I suggest you send it again by first class post from a Post Office counter and obtain a free proof of posting. According to the Interpretation Act it is assumed to have been delivered after two working days.

    Since you will then have lawfully served the scammers notice of the LBA at their registered offices, you can then go ahead with the actual claim and may be able to get a default win followed by a default CCJ against them, just like many other scammers do.
    Alternatively they may have someone pick up mail from that address and you might get a response.

    Personally I would go ahead with your claim. However, you need to go through your LBA and do some tidying up. You jump from saying things like, you did this or didn't do that, then say, CMS did this or didn't do that. It needs t be consistent. You could put in a one liner explaining that by "you" this means "CMS" limited, then you can use "you" every time. Alternatively change it to "CMS" every time.

    You mention the DVLA CoP and KADOE, but it is a KADOE contract between the DVLA and the scammers; in other words the scammers agreement on how they will lawfully obtain keeper details.
    Somewhere you need to explain what the acronyms mean before referring to them only as an acronym. So, Keeper At Date Of Event (KADOE) contract, then KADOE contract thereafter.
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  • Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
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    I sent the letter by Royal Mail, Special Delivery. I have requested for Royal mail to try and redeliver the letter... I was hoping this would be enough proof that I have done all I can to serve the letter.

    I will tidy up my letter and also send the letter as advised by Fruitcake tomorrow.

    Thank you all for your help and guidance
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
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    Did you send it to the registered office?

    Wasn't a PO Box, was it (never send signed-for to a PO Box of course).
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  • Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    Sorry...

    Yes, I sent it to the companies registered office... Although as we know, they have not occupied the address since January 2018.

    It was not a POBox, although it seems that cms are now running their company from one.
  • edited 23 May 2019 at 7:30AM
    Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
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    edited 23 May 2019 at 7:30AM
    This is the revised LBA

    I am writing this letter before claim in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action conduct with regards to the following matters which has arisen between us.

    Summary of Facts

    On the 25th January 2019 I had come home from a night shift. At approximately 0600hrs, I parked behind my home of 23 years, “***************"
    Unfortunately, I had not displayed a ‘valid permit to park’
    As I stated to my landlord back in 2007/2008. “I will display a permit out of courtesy. I do not agree or give my consent for a ‘permit’ to park at our residency.”

    I had finished a night shift, I was tiered and forgot to take the ‘permit’ out of my glove box. The ‘permit’ was normally displayed in a ‘tax disc holder and fixed on the inside of my window screen. Unfortunately, my vehicle had been written off in an accident outside work and I no longer had the Tax Disc holder.

    Upon returning to my vehicle several hours later, I noticed I had been issued an ‘Advanced Warning of Parking Charge Notice.’ This had been left under my Windscreen Wiper.

    On the 30th January I received a ‘Notice to Keeper’ alleging I had parked at “*************.’ This was not true, I do not live at this address.


    The PCN (invoice), was issued from the companies old ‘registered address.



    Reason for complaint

    1) Breach of my primary contract – Tenancy Agreement.
    1.1 I had parked within the confines of my primary contract (tenancy agreement- issued Dec 1995).
    1.2 The idea behind primacy is that a contract cannot be unilaterally altered by one party without the permission of the other. In the case of residential parking, the lease is the key document. I have unfettered rights to park in the carpark: "Winifride Court, Albert Road, Harborne, B17 0AN" with no mention of permit or parking system.
    1.3 This cannot be changed or altered in anyway by the parking company, as in the case of "Link Parking v Mrs P: case No C7GF50J7."


    Link Parking V Mrs P - it was found that the Parking company could not override the tenants right to park requiring a permit.

    1.4 Jopson and also Saeed v Plustrade Limited [2001] EWCA Civ 2011 which cites the well-established principle that 'a grantor shall not derogate from his grant' - i.e. in my simple terms, a landholder offering a right to 'peaceful enjoyment' to a resident and their visitors can't offer that on the one hand, take it away with the other.

    In Jopson V Homegaurd 2016, case no: B9GF09AR. It was established "Parking Eye v Bevis 2015 (UKSC67), Does not apply to residential parking. therefore, brings the penalty doctrine back into play.


    2) CMS’s Registered Address - ‘55 Leonards Road West, Lytham, St Annes, Lancashire, FY8 2PF.
    2.1 CMS moved out of the address to which their company is registered on the 23rd January 2018. Therefore, CMS are in breach of the ‘Companies ACT 2006, operating a company without a registered address.
    2.2 CMS are issuing and taking payments for parking charges from an address in which they no longer own/ occupy. This is Fraud, which is also against the Companies Act 2006.

    Therefore, CMS has no legal right to manage any scheme post 23rd January 2018, and any PCN’s issued from then should be classed as ‘invalid’ and any money taken should be classed as ‘fraudulently taken’ and refunded to the motorist.



    3) Signage (breaking regulations under Code or Practice and/or Keeper at Date of Event (Kadoe.)
    3.1 Signs which were/ are displayed were not upto current regulations.
    3.2 The entrance sign was poorly illuminated.
    3.3 The information the sign was barley readable as the text was too small.
    3.4 The sign was not made of the right material. The IPS’s ‘Code of Practice’ states, Signs should be constructed from material that is sufficiently robust to withstand normal external conditions. Signs must be professionally made and not hand-written, so it is immediately apparent to the motorist that they convey important information regarding the site upon which they are placed.” CMS’s sign was an old sign with a piece of paper stuck on to it, conveying text which is neither correct not upto standard as set in current regulations.
    3.5 CMS are using a premium number (0844), as a point of contact which is prohibited.
    3.6 CMS was purporting to be a member of a different Accredited Trade Association (ATA) in breach of the DVLA’s CoP and thus a further breach of their KADOE.

    Therefore, CMS has no legal right to manage our scheme post November 2013, and any PCN’s issued from then should be classed as ‘invalid’ and any money taken should be classed as ‘fraudulently taken’ and refunded to the motorist.
    CMS (UK) left the ‘British Parking Association (BPA) around November 2013 and Joined the IPC 03 February 2014 as CMS LTD.



    All of the above is in breach of the IPC’s CoP (Code of Practice) and 2.4 Breaches the DVLA’s CoP, and thus a further breach of their KADOE – Bringing a valid complaint of ‘Breach of the Data Protection Act 2018’. Therefore, CMS had no right to obtain ‘my personal data.’


    4) CMS’s Conduct
    4.1 CMS are issuing PCN’s from an address which they no longer own/ occupy.
    4.2 CMS gave false evidence to the IAS on what signs were displayed at the time of the alleged contravention.

    a. 25/01 – alleged contravention
    b. 08/03 - CMS gave evidence to the IAS, including what signs were displayed at the time.
    c. 12/03 - My last photographic image of the old sign carries the metadata, with the date/ time that the photo was taken - 12th March 2019 at 08:34.
    d. 20/03 – CMS changed the entrance sign. The sign now displayed is the sign which they said on the 8th March to the IAS, was displayed in January. This is some 12 days after they gave evidence and 54 days after the alleged contravention.

    ‘b’ and ‘d’ breaches the IAS/IPC’s CoP.


    5) Distress caused –
    5.1 CMS had fabricated evidence of which they would have committed perjury and gave evidence in a ‘Court of Law’ to secure a debt of which I did not owe.
    5.2 CMS instructed a ‘Debt’ Company to pursuit a debt of which I did not owe.
    5.3 The Debt company threatened me with court action.

    6) Breach of DPA -
    As a result, there is no legally-enforceable parking charge and no justification for CMS to pursue me. CMS, therefore, obtained my personal information without reasonable cause. This is a clear breach of data protection principles 1 and 2 of the Data Protection Act 1998 (DPA). CMS’s unreasonable and unlawful demand for payment is causing me significant distress and anxiety.

    What I am claiming from you

    I have calculated this sum


    Claiming for: Amount Reason:
    Breach of DPA £**** CMS was purporting to be a member of a different ATA in breach of the DVLA’s CoP and thus a further breach of their KADOE

    Furthermore, your company is operating from an address which they no longer own/ occupy.

    Therefore, CMS had no right to obtain my person details.

    Trespass £*** CMS had no legal right to touch my vehicle or put an ‘invoice’ upon it.
    Phone calls £** I had to make a call to the post offices depot at St Annes, chasing up the ‘cease and desist’ letter issued on
    Letters issued £** This is for 3 letters sent recorded delivery. I have also charged £10 per letter, for the time taken as well as delivery costs.
    Emails £*** This is for the numerous emails I have sent defending my claim, (I have charged £5 per email and capped it at 20). also, for the time taken researching and writing them.
    Distress £*** CMS fabricated evidence against me as to which signs were displayed at the time of alleged contravention.
    By instructing a ‘Debt Recovery’ Agent to recover the alleged debt, whom threatened me with court action.
    CMS being allowed to continue to operate despite my complaint and the evidence I have supplied.

    CMS are second operator instructed to out scheme that operate outside the ‘law’

    Total claimed: £**** Court costs and statutory interest maybe added.

    2) CMS have no fair right of appeals process, if actual evidence can be refused over virtual evidence with no right to review by the IPC. It appears that no mater what evidence is presented the Adjudicator will always favour the operator,

    Listed below are the documents on which I intend to rely in my claim against you:

    1) My Tenancy Agreement.
    2) PCN (invoice) you issued on the 30th January 2019. This shows an address of which your company is operating from.
    3) Documents which you have supplied Companies House.
    4) A document with images of the timeline of where your company is registered to, ‘55 Leonards Road West, Lytham, St Annes, Lancashire, FY8 2PF’
    5) The evidence you supplied the IAS regarding the alleged contravention. This will include what signs you alleged were displayed in January 2019
    6) An image of the actual sign which was displayed in January 2019. The sign did not conform to current regulations.
    7) Copies of my complaints to CMS, IAS/ IPC and my Landlord with their responses.
    8) The Companies Act 2006.
    9) The documents which I have requested from you.

    In accordance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct I would request that you provide me with copies of the following documents:
    1) A copy of the contract you hold with the Landowner, giving you legal right to manage our scheme.
    2) Proof you own/ occupy ‘55 Leonards Road West, Lytham, St Annes, Lancashire, FY8 2PF’
    If you cannot provide proof, can you please explain why? If you no longer own/ occupy the address, then when did you move out?
    3) A list containing all PCN’s which have been issued at our scheme post 23rd January 2018. The PCN’s were issued illegally and any money obtained should be refunded to the motorist.
    4) A list of ALL PCN’s which have been issued by CMS from ‘55 Leonards Road West, Lytham, St Annes, Lancashire, FY8 2PF’ post 23rd January 2018. PCN’s were issued illegally and any money obtained should be refunded to the motorist.

    In closing, I would draw your attention to paragraphs 15 and 16 of the Practice Direction which gives the courts the power to impose sanctions on the parties if they fail to comply with the direction including failing to respond to this letter before claim.

    I look forward to hearing from you within the next 28 days.
    Should I not receive a satisfactory response to my letter within this time frame, then I anticipate that court action will be commenced with no further reference to you.

    Yours faithfully,
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  • KeithPKeithP Forumite
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    In my opinion, a Letter Before Claim should be succinct.

    Anything longer that one side of A4 is, imho, too long.
  • The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
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    I agree, far too many eggs in that pudding. It also needs numbered paragraphs.
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    Thanks guys... Back to the drawing board.
  • Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
    10 Posts First Anniversary
    Hi all,

    I am wondering if I can bring a leagal complaint against the landowner (my housing association) over a private parking company. If so, what would be the basis of the complaint?

    25 Jan 19 - Alleged contravention
    30 Jan 30 - I received PCN for parking without a' permit.
    02 March - Appealed
    08 march - Operator submitted false evidence of signs at scheme
    20 March - signs replaced to match evidence submitted on the 8th. Signs at date of alleged contravention were not inline with current regulations.
    21 March - Appeal dismissed.

    PCN now cancelled after pushing the IPC by stating I was going to raise the issue with the DVLA and MP ect...

    I have tried to serve an LBA against the operator, they moved out of the address to which their company is registered to on the 22 January 2018, the same address to which they are operating from to date. Royal mail keep returning delivery, stating "unable to deliver company no longer at this address."

    The company have stated to my landlord that they still collect their mail from this address, which I find hard to believe. Last year I spoke to a funeral directors whom had moved into the address in April 2018, whom had no idea that another company was operating from an address to which they had moved to. Sadly the funeral directors are no longer their however I have evidence to say they were.

    My landlord have stated that if I have a complaint regarding the conduct of the operator, (fabricated evidence and illegal activities), then I am to take it up with the operator, it was nothing to do with my landlord.

    My landlord refuse to accept responsibility for their client and are letting them continue to manage our scheme and said they will defend any claim against them robustly.

    Can I bring a complaint against my landlord?
    I am aware of they cannot change my tenancy agreement which gives me unfettered rights to park without a 'permit' to park.

    My main aim is to get rid of this operator... I have been informed by Companies House that they have failed to respond to several letters sent out.... They now have one final chance before being struck off.
  • edited 22 June 2019 at 10:18PM
    Scrumpy11Scrumpy11 Forumite
    62 posts
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    edited 22 June 2019 at 10:18PM
    Ok...

    Today I have driven 253.5 miles to CMS's address and back.

    I was surprised to find the premises was occupied by a garage... I spoke to the manager and he confirmed that CMS have moved and they have nothing to do with them... He showed me all the mail he had been receiving for them, all of which was sitting in a draw... CMS do not collect their mail as stated to my landlord... The manager of garage would not put anything in writing, he feared his landlord for some reason.

    Whats the best way to go about this?

    I will be taking my landlord and Operator to court together, (operator wont receive documents unless landlord inform them.)

    DO I take the DVLA to court for data protection breach or is it the IPC? for releasing my person details to cms.

    I am also going after the IPC for allowing this company to continue after I have proved they are operating illegally. Plus not offering a fair right of appeal by accepting false evidence.

    I am wondering if CMS are ghosting... they know this company is screwed!

    I am not sure if im taking too much on but I want to strike whilst the Iron is hot.

    Good news is CMS will be stuck off soon :)
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