PCN - users only whilst remaining on site

Vasya

Hi all,

First of all, I read all newbies treads and searched the forum but still have some doubts, I would like to resolve them with your help.

As a registered keeper, I received PCN from CMServices Ltd (CMS) with an issue reason “medical centre users only whilst remaining on site”.
I was going to appeal using standard form published in the newbies thread but it seems a little out of focus for me in this case. The reasons why I do think so:

• PCN has a link to “evidences” (photos of the car and the sign published on their website) - it will not help to request photos, will it?
• PCN issue reason has no mention of PDT machine or overstay

So maybe it makes sense to appeal and ask for the evidences of the driver not remaining on site or not being a user of medical centre?

Another thing, the driver is a registered patient of the medical centre. But if I attach the proof (registration confirmation letter) it will reveal the driver (as I understood this info should be kept secret).


So I am a little confused and would be really grateful for your advice.

The_Deep

They might have trouble getting this past a judge. Suppose you brand new £300 Montecristo from Herrods is blown off site, Do you not leave the site to collect it?

Is this not an unfiar term in a consumer contract, a breach of one's rights under The Human Rights Act? Do they have evidence that the driver left site. Will he/she be wlling to attend court to be cross examined?

Vasya

Do they have evidence that the driver left site.

They don't based on the photos attached. Those photos show only the car in the parking lot.

Will he/she be wlling to attend court to be cross examined?

It might happen.


Also it is not really clear which site the driver should had remained on..

Coupon-mad

So maybe it makes sense to appeal and ask for the evidences of the driver not remaining on site or the occupants of the car not being a user of medical centre?

I agree. With the added bit in red.

Another thing, the driver is a registered patient of the medical centre. But if I attach the proof (registration confirmation letter) it will reveal the driver (as I understood this info should be kept secret).

Attach the letter as proof that the appellant, who is the keeper of the car, was an occupant on the material date who did use the medical centre and as far as you are concerned, as an eye witness, all occupants of the car stayed on site.

Ask for their proof/photos otherwise and remind them they will need to prove a prima facie case with evidence of a contravention, to the IAS and to a court if necessary, and you are quite prepared to see them in court.

This is a rare one that might be worth trying the (widely considered a kangaroo court and biased) IAS. Just because the PPC won't be able to prove the allegation.

But also, have you tried a complaint to the Surgery/Clinic Manager?

Vasya

But also, have you tried a complaint to the Surgery/Clinic Manager?

I talked to a member of staff on the reception. But she was unhelpful.
This medical centre has no email address, so I was going to write my complaint on a paper and post it.

Coupon-mad

Never complain to the monkey, only the organ grinder.

Say the occupants of the car did not leave the site and you are going to complain to the local paper about this intimidation. How dare they?

Also give them a link to the NHS Car Parking Principles and point out that they remain liable for the actions of their agent, if it is the clinic (and not a separate landowner) who contracted these idiots.

Meanwhile also appeal before the third week, as the PCN probably only gives 21 days.

Vasya

In theory, if the driver or the occupants of the car did not use medical centre exactly that day but they are registered patients of that medical practice. Does it change the case?

Umkomaas

Vasya wrote: »

In theory, if the driver or the occupants of the car did not use medical centre exactly that day but they are registered patients of that medical practice. Does it change the case?

Being a registered patient doesn’t give anyone free parking at any time they please. They would be blocking a space that a very sick person might have needed.

What exactly do you think your parking ‘rights’ are as a registered patient?

Vasya

In theory, was the car parked at the medical centre while it was open and while the driver or occupants of the car were doing something elsewhere?

It could happen that it was during weekend when practice was closed and the whole lot of parking spaces was free. And the driver and occupants were walking around parking grounds waiting for some one else for about 15-20 minutes.

NeilCr

Vasya wrote: »

It could happen that it was during weekend when practice was closed and the whole lot of parking spaces was free. And the driver and occupants were walking around parking grounds waiting for some one else for about 15-20 minutes.

It's not it "could" happen. It either did or it didn't. The PCN would have the date on it.

To be honest, I have very little sympathy with someone using a medical centre's parking for their own personal purposes.

Vasya

I totally agree with your attitude towards people taking parking places of the medical centres for their own use. And I am sorry that I mislead you with my “conspiracy play”.
The event DID happen during the weekend when the practice was closed, when there were no sick people around, there were plenty of free parking spaces. No harm done.