Blue Badge, Sainsbury & Horizon Parking

Beanie_Wabster

Good morning, this is my first post ever, grateful for all suggestions.

I have been parking in Sainsbury, whilst shopping, for about ten years, most of them with a Blue Badge.
Walking is becoming increasingly difficult and I now frequently need to rest and have a coffee before trying to return to my car.
Horizon Parking know I have a Blue Badge, however they have suddenly started to PCN me if I stay over 2 hours and less than three, they have also referred me to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd (DRP).
As much as I try to remind them, having changed car and supplied a few copies of my current Blue Badge (I always park properly, display badge) they just take no notice (but weirdly, I discovered after a phone call, cancelled one charge against me but never advised me?!).
They say they run a database that does not cross-reference and only uses the PCN reference number they themselves generate. What?
Not much use at all then, especially in identifying and tracking Blue Badge holders, let alone anyone else.
Now received another ANPR based fine, over two hours but under three hours granted by Blue Badge).
Immediately appealed using their system but I have another fine (over 2 but under 3 hours) from before Christmas.
How on earth do I get them to listen? I email both Horizon and DRP Ltd but they never take it on board and just ignore anything they don't want to hear.
I am now ill from the abuse, very near the end of my tether. So confused, I have explained and shown evidence in support.
Can they really torture people like this? It must be stopped, if Blue Badge holders are now considered 'fair game'?
All help gratefully received, not just for me but for all others finding themselves in this position.

Umkomaas

How on earth do I get them to listen?

You don’t! You get them to listen to their principal - Sainsburys. Go and see the Sainsburys manager, not customer service desk and complain bitterly.

Read up on the Equality Act 2010 to see that the retailer should provide ‘reasonable adjustments’ to a disabled person, and you could sue if these reasonable adjustments are denied you. If necessary, threaten the manager with being sued under the Act.

They say they run a database that does not cross-reference and only uses the PCN reference number they themselves generate. What?

Send Horizon a SAR to see what personal data the hold on you and the VRM of your vehicle - the NEWBIES FAQ sticky has further detail on this and links to examples and a template to use.

You also need to know whether they are seeking your data from the DVLA for every ticket they issue you through the post, or are they keeping their own data record to use each time (not allowed!).

You should email the DVLA and ask which organisations (and for what reason) accessed the registered keeper's data from them between a range of dates which includes the date(s) of the parking incident(s). You need to provide the registered keeper's full name and address, the address on the V5C logbook and the Vehicle Registration Mark of the vehicle involved in the parking incident.

SubjectAccess.Requests@dvla.gov.uk

This service is free of charge.

Even though you email your request, the DVLA will respond via Royal Mail.

D_P_Dance

Get your MP involved, they are totally on your side.

On 18th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these private parking companies. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, and persistent offenders denied access. Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers.

Until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

Also, acquaint yourself with The Equality Act 2010, the law which empowers disabled people and punishes disability discrimination, (and the PPC is discriminating against you.

Tell the Big Cheese that, if the PPC takes yo to court, youwill counter claim for DD and join Sainsbury in the action. UYou hold all the winning cards here, play them.

Fruitcake

What is this "under three hours" of which you speak? The blue badge scheme does not apply on private land as the booklet that comes with the badge tells you, so the three hours allowed on public roads (under certain circumstances) is irrelevant.
Do you mean that the car park signs allow extra time for disabled users, or are you incorrectly assuming the BB rules apply on private land?

You are dealing with unregulated scammers who make up their own rules to deliberately trap motorists, and completely ignore things like the Equality Act 2010, that does apply on both public and private land.

What happened when you complained to the store manager? If you get no joy there then complain to the CEO. Point out that since you are disabled and have protected characteristics in accordance with the EA 2010 the scammers must allow you more time by law.
Sainsbugs, as principle, are also liable. Point out that they could be involved in a court case as defendants if this goes any further.

Get your MP involved as well. Complain long and loud about this unregulated scam.

Ignore debt collectors. Post 4 of the NEWBIES explains why it is safe to do so. They have absolutely no powers other than the ability to send you poor quality bog paper.

fisherjim

Beanie_Wabster wrote: »

Horizon Parking know I have a Blue Badge, however they have suddenly started to PCN me if I stay over 2 hours and less than three, they have also referred me to Debt Recovery Plus Ltd (DRP).

Not much use at all then, especially in identifying and tracking Blue Badge holders, let alone anyone else.
Blue Badge holders are now considered 'fair game'?

Sorry but how do you think private parking companies (or scammers as we call them) will know you or anyone else have a blue badge in a camera controlled car park, and surely you don't really expect a private company to just store up a list of BB holders?


Have you ever read the Blue Badge booklet that explains it is only intended for local authority use and has no actual relevance on private land, where the landowner/PPC can make up what ever rules they like?


Blue Badge holders are not only considered fair game it has been proven that they are considered easy targets, especially would you believe in hospital car parks.


Sorry to be blunt but the days of cuddly parking attendants that helped you and gave you a bit of leeway are gone, and most have been sacked. We are now in the days of greed, money, and victimisation of the motorist, and this is happening everywhere at all levels.


You need to wise up now and follow the experts on here, forget what you think you know, and get clued up with the myriad of rules regs and everything else driving is now a nightmare!

Coupon-mad

Complain to the Sainsburys Manager, then escalate it to the CEO of Sainsburys if needed. Ask that your VRN is added to the store 'white list' as a disabled customer MUST be allowed a reasonable adjustment of time as you take longer.

Walking is becoming increasingly difficult and I now frequently need to rest and have a coffee before trying to return to my car.

Can they really torture people like this? It must be stopped, if Blue Badge holders are now considered 'fair game'?

Yes, sadly, IMHO all parking firms DO consider elderly or disabled people, pregnant ladies and anyone vulnerable as 'fair game'.

But your MP and your complaint to Sainsburys will do the trick. Get the car on a white list to make it exempt at that location, so Horizon can't abuse your data and sue you.

Neels_5

Hi, i was wondering what the outcome of this appeal was and whether the blue badge exemption applies at the Sainsbury car park.

I too have been sent a PCN for 'failure to pay for full duration of stay'. I stayed for a total of 24 minutes with a valid blue badge displayed.

Any chance of challenging this?

Redx

follow the advice above


complain to the manager of the store, then to their CEO by email if the store fail to cancel it, proof of patronage is a good lever

Coupon-mad

Complain, complain, complain (and not to the stupid PPC).

Neels_5

Hi - update

Went to Sainsbury's customer service asked to speak with the manager regarding a PCN. Lady at till phoned the manager who asked if it was for a disabled person who then asked to see a copy of the blue badge, noted down the number, took my PCN and gave me a note to say will be cancelled.

Also saw that disabled car par users do get free parking - just need to go to customer service and give them the car number I believe.

Thank you for the useful advice worked out well !

Neels_5

But yes I definitely recommend going to Sainsbury's rather than getting into an unnecessary quarrel with Horizon who wont listen or care - private companies never do !!!

Go directly to Sainsbury's and ask to speak with the manager !