Builder wanting a LOT more money, already had almost double time!

wesleyad

It seems you have a good case against the builder, but I would say how do you see this resolving?

If it's a large building firm you may be ok, but more likely he is a local firm?

If so he's either trying it on or, more likely, messed up his sums by a large amount and probably cannot finish for the specified amount. You could end up winning a court case against him and find he has no assets (certainly not 80-100k worth).

Fingers crossed he is trying it on and threat of court will make him finish.

hollydays

Sorry if this has already been asked, but have you asked them what these extra costs were for?

itsabitnutty

He wants the opportunity to explain what has gone where and why he needs so much more, I had already asked and he said “honestly that’s what it will cost”
I will let him, over email with a spreadsheet.

Honestly I want them gone, but hopefully I get building control soon get a list of what’s wrong, get quotes to put it right, give them the opportunity to fix (probably won’t be good though)

I told them not to come back this week unless they were prepared to honour the quote
They turned up today, I’m at work, but have cameras,
I kindly told them to leave don’t fit the velux roof lights ( we paid for and had to man handle in with the delivery driver, 3 x 84kg) and he says to me please don’t make me send the home.

I asked him again to leave , but the were already moving the roof lights, I don’t know if the installed them or just took them up stairs, I’ll know when I get home.

I also would mind getting back my storage costs my father rental and £33000 this year (ish) of recent payments as we are unlikely to be able to borrow more. As we don’t have a house that we are able to inhabit

I said

hollydays

The thing that stands out is that he did warn you living in the house wouldn't be ideal.You say you were trying to " keep costs down"how did it save money if you're wife was living elsewhere?
You made changes.
That's not ideal.In fact it sounds like builders nightmare there.
I've heard many stories from builder friends of the person who contracts them then keeps changing their mind.
Again, he suddenly says it will cost more.

My first response to that would have been " why?"
Yet you don't seem to have asked this, or aren't telling the whole story.

Some other points I don't get.
You got a quote.
Then afterwards your builder says steel beams are" too expensive" ?......
I get the feeling that you weren't really understanding the upheaval and that somehow you've brought some of this on yourself.It was a massive project.

itsabitnutty

hollydays wrote: »

The thing that stands out is that he did warn you living in the house wouldn't be ideal.Do you say you were trying to " keep costs down"how did it save money if you're wife was living elsewhere?
You made changes.
That's not ideal.In fact it sounds like builders nightmare there.
I've heard many stories from builder friends of the person who contracts them then keeps changing their mind.
Again, he suddenly says it will cost more.

My first response to that would have been " why?"
Yet you don't seem to have asked this, or aren't telling the whole story.

Some other points I don't get.
You got a quote.
Then afterwards your builder says steel beams are" too expensive" ?......
I get the feeling that you weren't really understanding the upheaval and that somehow you've brought some of this on yourself.It was a massive project.

HI, thank you for replying.

And I am being honest and open here!
after this post I'll likely close the thread, as seem like I am now the bad guy, and feel a little persecuted by your post!!

It’s really not that hard, in our case this builder quoted low to get the work, we’ve found 3 other reviews now, same issue, strung them along, then said it will cost more, all from the past 3 months.

Also not sure how it’s my fault that they had too many other jobs on!!? When they started they were finishing one job they had on and we were the only job for the rest of the year.

Quite from a solicitor’s website
“However, they cannot keep putting off the work for reasons unrelated to the difficulty of the task; for example, if they have too many other jobs to do elsewhere.
If your builder is taking too long even after you have talked to them about it, you may want to consider taking them off the job and getting someone else to finish it. However, unless you had already agreed on concrete deadlines which they then missed, cancelling their service may mean that you still have to pay them the agreed amount, even if they did not do the work.”
.


I’ll say it again, how could he have not known right up to this Saturday how much extra it needed, even 3 weeks ago or so, he said it will cost all the money to finish, before that he said it will cost more, but would tell me any figures. SO he knew but decided to eek it out until I had no choice, well I do, and it may cost me the same, but I am certain I’ll get better work

Seems you’re siding with the builders here.
I know it’s one sided, (my side) but I don’t take this situation lightly, maybe I didn’t write it correctly, as I am not brilliant at getting everything on paper (so to speak) or you don't understand what I had written.

If the project was always going to be £268 from everyone, it wasn't, it ranged from £110k to £268K, I would have taken a very hard look at what I really wanted and scaled the project back, and likely not used these guys. We did, as they were in the middle to low end, but now they are the very high end and the quality of construction is bad.

They were not massive changes, and we didn't keep changing our minds, and we fully expected a delay for those, things like an extra stud wall, garden wall a driveway etc. we asked for a quote, haggled and agreed, and like I said, even up to this last Saturday we gave them options to do it cheaper, and all of these agreed before they even started on the construction.

Yes, of course we knew it was a big project, and clearly, we were trying to save money, why shouldn't we? I fully expect maybe 6-8 weeks of delays, not what would be 22 weeks’ delay (42 weeks elapsed)
He never mentioned I should move out during the quote stage, in fact he said he did a build with a family with children so it’s no problem, he only mentioned again after they started works on the house in late September, but said its still ok.
To find somewhere for 3 people (1 pensioner who finds stairs difficult) for what should have been only 6 months(ish) or so was difficult, and everywhere that was suitable for 3 people, wanted 1 year or more, yes there some cases where we could get a year with an opt-out after 7 months, and pay the letters fees for the next tenant, plus we would have to pay utilities on 2 properties, council tax on 2 properties. would have cost us almost as much as our mortgage, and I’d have been a bigger moron than perhaps I am to do that, especially as we are at the 34 week mark of a 20 week project, it’s all their fault, we have never been in their way, and really do you take the whole roof off in October and not a new on back until February the following year!!

Now as for my wife is living elsewhere at the moment, she does have friends, it's free, so clearly we save money, not difficult concept!!

Of course, I asked him why regarding the steels I'm not quite that stupid, he said steels cost too much, but he also said its easier, and if they didn’t fit properly we don’t have the ability to cut them etc..


Also the rooflights in my earlier post, they did fit one, and its fitted wrong, just like all the vluxe’s they fitted, the felt collar not intact or missing, no insulation collar fitted, because they didn’t have room!! They asked me to buy everything for the velux’ and I confirmed with the what I was going to order.

itsabitnutty

oh and to top it off because we dont have a toilet, bathroom or kitchen, even if we could borrow more money at a decent rate, no lender will touch us, and its doubtful we'll get it finished by these guys!!

Aylesbury_Duck

itsabitnutty wrote: »

Hi Guys,

My first post here, and some great threads, just need one of my own, my apologies it could be lengthy, I need to vent a little, please don’t feel sorry for me, I want to give as full a picture as I can so I can get good advice.
I think also, some of my timelines may be a bit off, sorry.

We embarked on a quite sizeable project last July, we were told it would cost £x, great, second best quote we'd had out of 6 quotes, went to see only 1 job, but saw lots of photos of other work, so we were happy.
The job was for a sizeable garden office with garage, an addition to our existing extension and a full loft conversion, as well as the works to the kitchen etc, effectively a full refurb
Plans from the architect were for all new roof, rebuild the extension completely etc.. I won't go into too much detail

I'll add though, we agreed I would still live here, they did say it would be ideal, but they’d done it before with a family with children, my father and wife could stay elsewhere, and the garage and garden office would be built first, so I could move in there when the work started on the house.

Main reason for me to stay was for insurance, keep an eye on the place, as some other places had been burgled of materials, and to keep costs down, and not use our contingency.

Price quoted, timeline sorted (20 weeks, done by 9th December 2018), and contract signed.

Work started end of July, digging the footings for the garage, footings poured and the first course of concrete blocks going up, I go measure and it's wrong, by almost a metre, we got some back.

Then the walls go up, not in concrete block, but in thermalites, I agreed this would be OK to help with costs.
Then the questions came about the roof, structural engineers’ plans were for steel beams, builder said too expensive, I agreed they could do in timber if they got new structural drawings, as my structural engineer seemed to not want to know. Just before this we asked about having a window in the gable end, and it would cost x, way out of our price, but the builders said, because of the reduced cost in doing the roof in timber, they’d supply the window, awesome.

Were now in mid-September, still no roof on the garage, and they want to start the house, OK, so my wife and father move out, and I stay here, walls start coming down on the extension, and to where the new extension would be, I thought they would build the new wall with wall ties and the cut the opening, but no, everything done with brute force.

Weeks move on, no progress, then they start demolishing the kitchen, at that time I did have water to fill up my only toilet cistern, but no longer.

Still no progress on the garage, and I was then told we think you should have moved out, as they don’t call the electrician or the plumber n until it’s all ready to be started, what the heck!!

Scaffolding goes up in October, with tin roof, old roof comes off, totally, so I’m left with some bad insulation, nothing else, and the weather is closing in, rain come in sideways and leaks in to the only habitable room, as we still have some or a lot😊of stuff in the house, not all in storage (again trying to keep costs down).

End of October, we get the first delay, they are busy in other jobs and want an extension, 8 weeks, we very reluctantly agree, wife was furious, I wasn’t for some reason, and I’m rather intolerant nowadays, so 9th Feb 2019, I ask for a revised contract and a full breakdown of the remaining works, and what will be done when (we haven’t received to date), this starts eating into our contingency, as storage prices mount up, and my father had to go into a small rental property.
We keep paying the builders as they do work, getting a bit worried, but we are assured they are going to crack on.
In October my father had a big health scare, he’s OK now but still, no home to go to, I feel terrible for putting my family through this!

Christmas goes by, no roof, we did have some ply put down and the old insulation removed, but we did have major rain, and leaks, I got in touch and an hour later they turned up, but after I’d already found some plastic sheeting and put it down, fair do’s. I live in 1 room, I do have creature comforts, a bed, a heater, TV, and I did put the sky dish back up before Christmas, also had to take my 2 weeks mandatory leave from work, just before Christmas, no fun, being stuck here.

Moving on, now mid Jan, still no water (well we had a tap 1, for a while now), toilets, kitchen etc.. you get the picture by now, we agree the roof tiles for the house & garage (again, maybe 4 times, links sent to them as to what we want etc..), roof goes up, badly, I make them change, still not perfect, but watertight (well almost)

So we hit 9th Feb, no request for any more time just more money out of the agreed monies, and more promises of a big push, oh I hadn’t mentioned lots of promises of a big push.
I tell them they have 6 more weeks (23rd March), they agree, things start to move on a bit, they start rendering the house (no windows yet!!), the guys rendering a obviously surprised by this, but can work around this, as it will have k-rend as a final coat.
They ask for all the remaining monies, I say no, but they ay they cant move on without it, and it would take it all to finish it, I say no, and hold out for a week, and eventually give them some more money.
No visits from building control!
Electrician and plumber finally start, but not here all the time.
Plumbers been twice but nearly finished, electrician has been here longer and almost done.

So lets get to 23rd March, they ask for a meeting, lets go in the house in private, that’s a laugh there is nowhere to have a meeting except the bedroom.
Full disclosure, we did ask for extras, which we agreed a price on, and why we agreed some of the delays, but a total of 42 weeks!! For a 20 week build?!
On average they’ve been here about 35% of the time to date (34 weeks)
So we’re outside, and we start talking, and they start about the time, 8 more weeks, try to blame us a little bit, well actually they said its not all your fault!! What the heck!! How is it our fault they can’t manage the jobs they have on!! Moving on, then here comes the kicker, another £100k.

My wife was in tears when they left, she’s a strong and determined woman and held it together whilst they were here.
We gave them options to make it cheaper for them as we had done all along
2 hours later they cam back with £80k, and I kept saying no way, especially as all our contingency went with delays.

I keep saying there is no way, all we have left is what we have left and we’d end up with no bathrooms, no doors, no flooring etc, even no kitchen (whilst no kitchen is a hassle, we could live though it)

I’ve asked them not to come back this week unless they finish at the quoted price.
I reckon they knew at least as far back as 4 weeks ago but strung us along thinking we had the money and wouldn’t fight them on it.
Last night my wife found a review from Jan 2019 (this year!!) for the same thing, asked for more monies etc…

Now we had a quote and signed contracts, how do I stand, what are my options legally?

Thanks for reading this, and any advice.

Preserved in case OP starts deleting.

itsabitnutty

Mods, please close this thread

thearchitect

Itsabitnutty


I should point out that it is not Building Control's job to carry out a detailed check of the build quality. You cannot rely upon them as a comprehensive arbiter. This is the job of your Architect or Surveyor. You are carrying out significant amounts of work and should resource the project accordingly.

itsabitnutty

Thanks,

Yes, our architect will come and look, but we not available for around 3 weeks. In the meantime we still want building control to point out what’s not to regulation.