Builder wanting a LOT more money, already had almost double time!

itsabitnutty

Hi Guys,

My first post here, and some great threads, just need one of my own, my apologies it could be lengthy, I need to vent a little, please don’t feel sorry for me, I want to give as full a picture as I can so I can get good advice.
I think also, some of my timelines may be a bit off, sorry.

We embarked on a quite sizeable project last July, we were told it would cost £x, great, second best quote we'd had out of 6 quotes, went to see only 1 job, but saw lots of photos of other work, so we were happy.
The job was for a sizeable garden office with garage, an addition to our existing extension and a full loft conversion, as well as the works to the kitchen etc, effectively a full refurb
Plans from the architect were for all new roof, rebuild the extension completely etc.. I won't go into too much detail

I'll add though, we agreed I would still live here, they did say it would be ideal, but they’d done it before with a family with children, my father and wife could stay elsewhere, and the garage and garden office would be built first, so I could move in there when the work started on the house.

Main reason for me to stay was for insurance, keep an eye on the place, as some other places had been burgled of materials, and to keep costs down, and not use our contingency.

Price quoted, timeline sorted (20 weeks, done by 9th December 2018), and contract signed.

Work started end of July, digging the footings for the garage, footings poured and the first course of concrete blocks going up, I go measure and it's wrong, by almost a metre, we got some back.

Then the walls go up, not in concrete block, but in thermalites, I agreed this would be OK to help with costs.
Then the questions came about the roof, structural engineers’ plans were for steel beams, builder said too expensive, I agreed they could do in timber if they got new structural drawings, as my structural engineer seemed to not want to know. Just before this we asked about having a window in the gable end, and it would cost x, way out of our price, but the builders said, because of the reduced cost in doing the roof in timber, they’d supply the window, awesome.

Were now in mid-September, still no roof on the garage, and they want to start the house, OK, so my wife and father move out, and I stay here, walls start coming down on the extension, and to where the new extension would be, I thought they would build the new wall with wall ties and the cut the opening, but no, everything done with brute force.

Weeks move on, no progress, then they start demolishing the kitchen, at that time I did have water to fill up my only toilet cistern, but no longer.

Still no progress on the garage, and I was then told we think you should have moved out, as they don’t call the electrician or the plumber n until it’s all ready to be started, what the heck!!

Scaffolding goes up in October, with tin roof, old roof comes off, totally, so I’m left with some bad insulation, nothing else, and the weather is closing in, rain come in sideways and leaks in to the only habitable room, as we still have some or a lot😊of stuff in the house, not all in storage (again trying to keep costs down).

End of October, we get the first delay, they are busy in other jobs and want an extension, 8 weeks, we very reluctantly agree, wife was furious, I wasn’t for some reason, and I’m rather intolerant nowadays, so 9th Feb 2019, I ask for a revised contract and a full breakdown of the remaining works, and what will be done when (we haven’t received to date), this starts eating into our contingency, as storage prices mount up, and my father had to go into a small rental property.
We keep paying the builders as they do work, getting a bit worried, but we are assured they are going to crack on.
In October my father had a big health scare, he’s OK now but still, no home to go to, I feel terrible for putting my family through this!

Christmas goes by, no roof, we did have some ply put down and the old insulation removed, but we did have major rain, and leaks, I got in touch and an hour later they turned up, but after I’d already found some plastic sheeting and put it down, fair do’s. I live in 1 room, I do have creature comforts, a bed, a heater, TV, and I did put the sky dish back up before Christmas, also had to take my 2 weeks mandatory leave from work, just before Christmas, no fun, being stuck here.

Moving on, now mid Jan, still no water (well we had a tap 1, for a while now), toilets, kitchen etc.. you get the picture by now, we agree the roof tiles for the house & garage (again, maybe 4 times, links sent to them as to what we want etc..), roof goes up, badly, I make them change, still not perfect, but watertight (well almost)

So we hit 9th Feb, no request for any more time just more money out of the agreed monies, and more promises of a big push, oh I hadn’t mentioned lots of promises of a big push.
I tell them they have 6 more weeks (23rd March), they agree, things start to move on a bit, they start rendering the house (no windows yet!!), the guys rendering a obviously surprised by this, but can work around this, as it will have k-rend as a final coat.
They ask for all the remaining monies, I say no, but they ay they cant move on without it, and it would take it all to finish it, I say no, and hold out for a week, and eventually give them some more money.
No visits from building control!
Electrician and plumber finally start, but not here all the time.
Plumbers been twice but nearly finished, electrician has been here longer and almost done.

So lets get to 23rd March, they ask for a meeting, lets go in the house in private, that’s a laugh there is nowhere to have a meeting except the bedroom.
Full disclosure, we did ask for extras, which we agreed a price on, and why we agreed some of the delays, but a total of 42 weeks!! For a 20 week build?!
On average they’ve been here about 35% of the time to date (34 weeks)
So we’re outside, and we start talking, and they start about the time, 8 more weeks, try to blame us a little bit, well actually they said its not all your fault!! What the heck!! How is it our fault they can’t manage the jobs they have on!! Moving on, then here comes the kicker, another £100k.

My wife was in tears when they left, she’s a strong and determined woman and held it together whilst they were here.
We gave them options to make it cheaper for them as we had done all along
2 hours later they cam back with £80k, and I kept saying no way, especially as all our contingency went with delays.

I keep saying there is no way, all we have left is what we have left and we’d end up with no bathrooms, no doors, no flooring etc, even no kitchen (whilst no kitchen is a hassle, we could live though it)

I’ve asked them not to come back this week unless they finish at the quoted price.
I reckon they knew at least as far back as 4 weeks ago but strung us along thinking we had the money and wouldn’t fight them on it.
Last night my wife found a review from Jan 2019 (this year!!) for the same thing, asked for more monies etc…

Now we had a quote and signed contracts, how do I stand, what are my options legally?

Thanks for reading this, and any advice.

Aylesbury_Duck

Given the magnitude of costs and projected costs involved, I’d advise investing in some proper legal advice.

thearchitect

It will be little consolation to know that you're not the first - and you won't be the last - in this position.


Aylesbury is entirely correct: go to a lawyer urgently. I would suggest that this should be a solicitor with experience of construction disputes. Check whether your household insurance includes legal cover first, as this is unlikely to be cheap.


You are likely to be advised to seek professional advice regarding the quality of build and quantum. I assume that you appointed your architect directly, albeit on a partial service, and that he is fully qualified rather than a local "plan drawer". It may be worth speaking to him at an early stage regarding the costs of such advice failing which you should speak to the RIBA and/or RICS regarding someone locally with the correct experience.

itsabitnutty

thank you both, I have contacted our architect, he was accredited, he was really good.
I'll be calling our insurance today, seems we have 'basic' legal expenses, but no documentation on what that is.

Here are snippets from our contract

Agreement:
This document is a binding agreement between “the Builder” and “the Client” named above to carry out
all the jobs listed in the job document number stated above for the agreed price and within the stated timeframe, as per below payment
schedule and contract conditions.

1) The Builder’s main obligation – to do the work
The Builder will carry out the work:
According to the details listed in document;
With reasonable care and skill and to a reasonable standard; and
In compliance with all relevant l building regulations and all legal requirements.
Before the completion date, the Builder will remove all rubble, surplus materials, rubbish, tools and scaffolding on the site and leave it clean and tidy. The Builder will not be responsible for removing any items the Client, or any person the Builder don’t control, place on the site. During the work, the Builder agrees to keep the site orderly and reasonably free of debris.
At the end of the contract, the Builder will convey to the Client any warranties by manufacturers or suppliers on individual
materials, products or systems supplied by the Builder under this agreement. The Client should keep these files in a safe place
for use in the future.
2) The Client’s main obligation – to pay the Builder
The Client will pay the Builder according to the agreed payment schedule such sums of money that become due for the work
completed. The total price for all the works listed in

5) Variations
Any variations, including but not limited to, modifications, omissions or additions that are made to this agreement must be agreed to in writing by both parties detailing the price and specifications of such variations. If the Client wants to change the work, the Client must inform the Builder as soon as possible, additional charges and time may be added due to any variations.

thearchitect

I infer from the extracts quoted that you are not using one of the standard forms of building contract such as JCT Minor Works or Home Owner/Occupier Contract but rather a bespoke document of some description. The status of that document, and how a dispute such as this is remedied therein, will require legal advice. In my view that will require to be someone with an understanding not just of general contract law but specifically construction disputes.


Alas that is not usually cheap. Legal Expenses Cover may help soften that blow, if it falls within the terms of the policy, and I advise you to speak to your householder insurers as a matter of some urgency. If that is not possible then you are likely to have to engage your own.



The advantages of this are twofold. Firstly, it gives you considered advice which will allow you to decide how best to proceed. Secondly, if the builder is "trying it on" then the knowledge that you have insurers with deep pockets may serve to discourage him from continuing along that path.

This takes me back to your architect. I infer from what you say so far that was only appointed to take matters up to Building Regulations Approval/Building Warrant stage, and had no duties in respect of either the production of "production information" (i.e. the highly detailed documents required for construction) or administration of the contract works on site?


Notwithstanding that, I would encourage you to speak to him (or her) about the quality and quantum of work undertaken by the builder. A good architect is capable of inspecting work and reaching a view on the adequacy or otherwise of operations, and is likely to be required to support any claim against the builder for breach of contract. Alternatively an RICS building surveyor (not a general surveyor) can do so. Both carry a cost.

itsabitnutty

It was supplied by the company carrying out the building works.

insurance company say we should have a strong case and gave me advice.

So we may need to have more discussions with the builders before we quote the Consumer Rights Act of 2015, and say we're taking legal action or any arbitration.

But before that, we need to see our building control person, I only contacted him yesterday, so will wait for tomorrow to call him

I've been in touch with our architect, who has suggested (as did thearchitect) that I go to one of the following;
The Royal Institue of British Architects, The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, Association of Independents Construction Adjudicators and the Chartered Institute of Arbitrators.

All are 300 +VAT, not a problem to get this resolved

Again, many thanks guys

thearchitect

Just a moment.

Firstly private dwellings are, I think, excluded from the Housing Grants, Construction, and Regeneration Act 1996. Whether that takes it into the Consumer Rights Act I don't know, and this is one of the reasons why you require a legal advice.

Secondly, and in the same vein, you really need something more than an initial telephone consultation. The solicitor advising you will require to have full sight of the papers in order to advise you as to the best course of action. They will require to frame a response, either on your behalf or for you to then forward. That will take a little time. Be sure that you therefore confirm the scope of their support at this stage.

Thirdly, I suggested that you speak to an architect who was a member of the RIBA, or a surveyor with the RICS. Neither of these professional bodies will actually provide you with technical advice themselves, although they may be willing to nominate an adjudicator/arbiter/arbitrator if matters go down that route.

Fourthly, depending on where you are in the UK the going rate for a qualified architect will be £45-65/hr and £55-75/hr for a chartered building surveyor. These figures exclude VAT and expenses. A site visit/inspection and report is going to take 1-2 days to complete to the level required for a dispute. £300 isn't going to come near it. Again, you need to tie this down now or it can come as a shock later.

itsabitnutty

Hi, thearchitect.

Thank you again, Sorry, not very good at getting my thoughts on paper (so to speak)
I probably didnt explain properly

The initial phone call with the insurance company was only that and we can proceed further if we need to, on to solicitors/lawyers, and it was they that advised re Consumer Rights Act.
I did say we may need more discussion with the builder before taking legal action

Sure I know it will cost a lot more than £300+VAT, I didnt mean it to come across that way, I actually meant for the arbitration,as if the builder doesn't agree to complete, then we go to arbitration and a threat of full legal action they may finish for the agreed price, but I am not sure I really want them to finish!
If we do get a solicitor etc. I reckon on the high end 75/hr

Our architect is a member of RIBA, and have asked him if he is willing to do site visit.

itsabitnutty

was going to send the builder this email? am I being really stupid?

Hi xxx

Just want to get all this straight and in writing.

Further to this weekends meeting and subsequent WhatsApp communications.

I advised you not to come around this week unless you are willing to finish the job for the quoted price, as we needed to get our heads together (meaning xx and me)

From our point of view,
We have a contract at an agreed price, and time.
We added extras and agreed on a price.
We agreed to the initial 8-week delay with the caveat you drew up a new contract and supplied us with a plan/schedule of works, this was not done.
We gave you another 6 weeks.
During our meeting around 3 PM Sat 23rd March, you request another 8 weeks and a £100,000 to complete the job.
I utter some profanities and say no way, we give you options to make some of the extras cheaper.
4:20 PM Sat 23rd March I receive a WhatsApp with a revised figure of £80,000
We advised you we cannot even get £25,000 extra, all we have is the remainder, no more contingency.

Early on we advised you that we wanted/needed the garage/office finished, and you agreed, this still isn't finished.
We are incurring costs with storage, my fathers rental, which he actually managed to get until 9th May now, so didnt have to go to my sisters or get a hotel room, and we are not asking you to pay the penalty in the contract for you not meeting the schedule.


We are asking you kindly, are you able to complete the work at the agreed price?

comeandgo

itsabitnutty wrote: »

Hi,
If we do get a solicitor etc. I reckon on the high end 75/hr

Our architect is a member of RIBA, and have asked him if he is willing to do site visit.

I think you will not be getting a fully trained solicitor sat £75/hour. I'd double it and add VAT.

itsabitnutty

comeandgo wrote: »

I think you will not be getting a fully trained solicitor sat £75/hour. I'd double it and add VAT.

probably right, here in London.

Hopefully, our insurers won't put us in touch with a London based