Problems getting refund to closed expired card

mr-b

A retailer is refunding me but it's to an expired closed card (closed 2y ago). They said they need a valid expiry date but of course the card expired ages ago.
The card company (Pure card) who supplied the BT Reward Mastercard debit card (not sure if the debit aspect makes any difference) won't issue a new card. The retailer will only refund to the original card due to "money laundering regs".



So I'm rather stuck!
Where do I go now?

[Deleted User]

Once they've refunded, ask for a cheque or transfer. The expired card won't make a difference.

Ben8282

Why are you getting a refund from a retailer over 2 years after you purchased the item?

Terry_Towelling

The retailer doesn't need an expiry date to make a refund but they may be using a system that has been badly designed (like many out there) which will not allow the transaction to be processed without a 'future' expiry date.

Now, I very much doubt that the retailer system will be seeking an authorisation approval for the refund, but if it does, it is equally doubtful that the issuer will perform any sort of validation on the expiry date value.

You could give the retailer an expiry date that is some time in the future and leave it at that.

I think your biggest issue is going to be getting hold of the refund once it's been made. So many issuers have such poor systems that they cannot cope with refunds to closed accounts and they simply lose them within their systems and then tell customers that they never received them or rejected them back to the retailers' bankers.

Now, I have been accused of making suggestions that are tantamount to 'dangerous whimsy' that could conceivably backfire. I therefore stress that my suggestion here does not constitute advice - only whimsy - but it is a workable solution if your card issuer knows what it is doing.

If the refund fails to get through you will be no worse off than you are now. If it works, you may get it straightaway or you may have to push at your issuer to get at it. Perhaps talk to your issuer first and try to get past the front-office staff for a more reliable account of the way they handle refunds on expired cards and closed accounts.

mr-b

Useful info - I recall now when I had a refund from another retailer on an absent card (and it went through even though I put the wrong card in the reader) that the accuracy of expiry date didn't matter that much, so will try that avenue as it seems it could be an easy route to progress. I've asked for transaction details in case it helps tracing the refund at the card issuer.

The >2y ago refund was the method the retailer decided on as fulfilling the 5y warranty.

phillw

mr-b wrote: »

The >2y ago refund was the method the retailer decided on as fulfilling the 5y warranty.

I had a similar problem. I told them I had no idea what card I used and whether the account was still open & nobody I spoke to had permission to look to see what card I used either. it was pretty stressful and I kept complaining (the problem took a while to resolve for multiple reasons and the email CC list kept getting longer as managers and their managers were bought in).

Eventually they came back and said that because the card had expired, they needed a new set of card details & were able to refund to that. I'm not convinced they still had my original card details anyway as it was > 2 years.

AML is a poor excuse as it's a bit of a long game to buy something that fails and predict they will be unable to repair or replace it. I would complain some more, they have many options available to them other than refunding to the original card..

Depending on what has been said already you could say that the card is expired and has been replaced with a new one with a new card number and just give a different bank card, if they spot it then feign ignorance, both will have been in your name so AML should be fine (laundering money through yourself is kinda pointless)

I certainly wouldn't get it refunded to the Pure card unless I had a written assurance from Pure that the money would be returned to me, because the money on those doesn't really belong to you & once the expiry date hits then any access to that money is lost with it. So technically if they do refund it to that card, then you may have a legal battle with Pure to get it back. Which the company refunding you can't argue is acceptable.

Be polite but forceful, don't agree to anything that risks you not receiving the money, keep escalating it. They should cave before you need to ask them what address to put on your small claims application.

Don't make up an expiry date, that would be fraud, if I was Pure then I'd make your life hell if you did that..

System

Ben8282 wrote: »

Why are you getting a refund from a retailer over 2 years after you purchased the item?

Why on earth not?

Terry_Towelling

phillw wrote: »

Don't make up an expiry date, that would be fraud, if I was Pure then I'd make your life hell if you did that..

Appreciate the point you make but it isn't really fraud. OP would not be committing any crime and is not seeking to gain anything of value that isn't destined for them anyway.

OP, if you are worried about this, perhaps do as suggested at the end of my post and talk to the card issuer first. Ask them whether they need a current expiry date to accept a refund transaction and whether they check that piece of data in refund transactions. You could even ask them to give you an expiry date to quote to get the refund past the retailer's system.

As a side issue, making a payment under the terms of a warranty is perhaps not quite the same as making a refund of the transaction, so payment by an alternate means should be fine - if you can convince the retailer.

(edit) I've just emailed Pure with a hypothetical scenario. I'll report back with what they say - if they agree to say anything to me, that is. OP, you could do the same with real details.

phillw

Terry_Towelling wrote: »

Appreciate the point you make but it isn't really fraud. OP would not be committing any crime and is not seeking to gain anything of value that isn't destined for them anyway.

https://www.bt.com/consumer/assets/downloads/pure_prepaid_visa_card_full_tandc.pdf

2 THIS AGREEMENT
2.1. The Card is an e-money prepaid Card. This is not a credit, charge or debit card.
2.2. The Card is supplied to You as a limited time reward under the BT Broadband Offer. Whilst You are permitted to use the
Card in accordance with this Agreement, Grass Roots remains the cardholder and the legal owner of the funds loaded on the Card at all times.

6 CARD EXPIRY
6.1. The expiry date of the Card is printed on the front of the Card. You will not be able to use the Card once it has expired.
6.2. No Transactions will be processed after the Card has expired.

9.3. We reserve the right not to repay or refund any sums to which You may be entitled if We have reasonable cause to believe You have not acted in accordance with these Terms and Conditions.

I assume they recycle card numbers, so the original card number could be valid for someone else.

I'd try very hard not to get the refund sent to Pure. It may go outside the retailers standard practise, but if you make a complaint then they should be able to organise an alternative method of payment. Issuing refunds is definitely outside Pure's standard practise.

If you decide to refund via Pure then I would only tell the retailer the correct expiry date, if they refuse to refund to an expiry date in the past or you don't know it then they must move onto another method. They cannot reasonably expect you to lie, I'd love the compensation opportunity if someone was outrageous enough to ask me to.

mr-b

Terry_Towelling wrote: »

(edit) I've just emailed Pure with a hypothetical scenario. I'll report back with what they say - if they agree to say anything to me, that is. OP, you could do the same with real details.

Yes I asked them about it and they said it was Ok to get the refund issued to them, it was mainly about getting the retailer to process it.
Of course I realise I was talking to front line staff who may not be aware of all T&Cs.
I'll talk to the retailer again tomorrow.

phillw

mr-b wrote: »

Of course I realise I was talking to front line staff who may not be aware of all T&Cs.
I'll talk to the retailer again tomorrow.

Pure front line people might not know about the BT card, the T&C for each different Pure card are different.

The front line people at the retailer will only know what has been drummed into them "you can only refund to the same card". I tried to point out that I didn't even know what card it was, so I wouldn't be able to contact the issuer to get the payment passed on to me. The same answer came back.

Eventually someone in the accounts department flagged up that the card had expired and they completely changed their tune and I was asked for new card details. I had been making a nuisance of myself. They refunded me more than I paid, I don't know if they included interest or they just wanted to get rid of me (it was a much greater sum than you would have gotten on a bt reward card).

It doesn't actually matter if Pure are happy to refund you the money, it'll be much easier to get it onto another card, persuading the retailer that you won't get the money from Pure may achieve that.