Portswood Centre , Britannia and Land management.

Mirrorcarp

Hi All
I have started this thread regarding a PCN issued to myself as the registered keeper of a vehicle parked in the car park mentioned in the title.
The contravention took place on the 30th January 2019 and was for an overstay of 16 minutes on a Sunday evening in an empty dark car park.
My Popla appeal has already been sent.
I have discovered after some digging that the management of the land changed hands on the 14th December from CBRE to KMP SOLUTIONS. I have this confirmed in an e mail from KMP.
They have also confirmed that they do not have a contract with Britannia and I quote them ( because of all the complaints). This is all confirmed in an e mail as well.

Unfortunately though they say they cannot cancel my ticket for me as they do not have a line of communication with them. They also confusingly say that Britannia does have the right to issue tickets under their old contract. I am not sure how this can be. It just doesn't make sense.

My next job is to contact CBRE and ask them to cancel the ticket. I will also ask them to make it clear what their position is regarding Britannia and their right to issue tickets.
I did mention the ownership change in my appeal and await the outcome.

I wish I had held fire on my Popla appeal as I could have put a lot more detail in it but I did mention the management change and questioned whether Britannia had the right to issue PCN s.

I will keep everyone informed and would be grateful for all advice regarding this PCN.

MistyZ

Did you specifically challenge land owner authority?

I don't understand how Britannia can issue tickets under their old contract. Yes, it may not have run out yet, but it has to be between Britannia and whoever owns or manages the land .... doesn't it?

I think there's a good chance that CBRE will take your complaint seriously. Also wondering whether Britannia will back off ...

And surely, should this go to court, there will be a good case to make.

Mirrorcarp

Yes I did challenge landowner authority.


As this operator does not have proprietary interest in the land then I require that they produce an unredacted copy of the contract with the landowner! It is my understanding that on the 20th January when the said contravention of the driver occured there was no contract in place between Britannia and the landowner, KMP Solutions.

That was the exact wording on my Popla appeal.

MistyZ

Then surely it's going to be successful .... fingers crossed. You are right to try your very best with the landowner route meanwhile.

LoneStarState

When you say dark, was the car park lit at all? I was in Southampton back in December and walked past the Portswood Centre car park on the way back from a Saints game. I honestly couldn't see any real lighting from the entrance. Hopefully you have ample photos of the car park and poorly illuminated signage at night with only the ambient light (no camera flash). This will also be a strong POPLA point.

Mirrorcarp

The signs in this car park are attached to lampposts. The light on the top lights the sign. They are not great.
The entrance to the site is worse .Signs are on side walls and not in front of you as you drive in and quite high up too.
I did attach photos to my appeal but it would seem others have not been successful on the light situation alone.
Does anybody know how long you normally have to wait for a Popla decision ?

The_Deep

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem become so widespread that MPs agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Hopefully, this will become law by Easter .

notaskyofearth

Thanks very much for starting this thread. I am currently dealing with a PCN for this site at the POPLA stage. I'm working my way through all the relevant posts before I send the appeal it to POPLA but thought I would ask a quick question based on specifics which Mirrorcarp has already raised:

I've written to both companies: - CBRE and KMP. I've received emails back from named people at each company stating that they no longer have any contract or correspondence with Britannia Parking. The latest message from KMP confirmed that they currently manage the property but stated that Britannia are "acting within a contract they had with the previous agents".

Re the complaint: Should I renew my approach to CBRE and suggest that they still ought to have the authority to cancel the PCN if Britannia are acting within a contract on which only they are named?

Re POPLA: I have similar points about signage etc. which I could make but does this mean that I should simply focus my appeal on the issue of land owner authority? Are there precedents for this kind of owner/agent merry-go-round with PPC? Seems totally bizarre to me.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

LoneStarState

The good news is you have the proof that Britannia no longer has the authority to issues charges for that car park. You will definitely be able to kill this at POPLA with the confirmation from both KMP and CBRE that they don't correspond with nor have a contract with Britannia. You can continue to try with CBRE, but as far as they're concerned, their relationship with the Portswood Centre and its parking problems due to Britannia are over.

I'm beginning to cynically think that Britannia, after having been contacted by KMP for earlier cancellations we've seen, has for want of a better phrase spun a rather large yarn to KMP that their old contract with CBRE is still valid (it can't be). KMP use that excuse to fob off further requests to cancel and CBRE fob off because they no longer manage the car park.

What CBRE may not realise is that Britannia is more than likely producing the same tired old witness statement (and potentially later down the line if in a court, the actual contract) at POPLA that implicates CBRE. One wonders what would happen if CBRE were made aware of the fact that their business name (and thus integrity) is being used by Britannia to legitimise Britannia's scam at this car park when CBRE are no longer involved. That would be very deceptive indeed, and would be unlawful in the pursuit of getting registered keeper details from the DVLA. One wonders if CBRE would suddenly want to save face and rectify customer dissatisfaction at that car park.

Maybe it will soon be time to get some publicity on the situation from local media/politicians.

As to your second point, it would still be prudent to include further appeal points as given in the newbies thread. Go in with more than one bullet in the chamber just in case you end up with a POPLA assessor that has the aim of a stormtrooper .

Other than that, if you really need anymore help, just a friendly pointer to start a new thread rather than continue on this one.

notaskyofearth

LoneStarState that is extremely helpful - thank you!

After reading your musings I have miraculously arrived at a plan completely independently. If I need to ask anything further I will start a new thread as you suggest. Hopefully for the time being the new information added will be of some help to the others in this one.

Thanks again.

Mirrorcarp

Gosh the audacity of Britannia is jaw dropping really.

I regret not holding on with my Popla appeal but it is what it is.

Would be shocked if they took me to court with the facts we now know.

I will tonight e mail CBRE to see what they have to say.