UHW ParkingEye charge -issued issued three months later - Please help

flyingrabbit

Two weeks ago I received two identical Parking Charge Notice from Parking Eye, both issued on the same day 20th Feb 2019. The difference is that the frist one dated on 20th Feb i2019 s a PCN and the second one dated on 1st March 2019 is a PCN REMINDER. Being away I only opened both today... and almost had a heart attack as I don't own a car... then thinking hard, I remembered I had a rented car at that time but the car rental company has not informed me about parking charges ,and these are the first letter(s) I have received. Here's a link to a photo of one of them //imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5654/O4F7qX.png I deleted the http as I am not allow to post links

The Charge notice is for parking 44min over the free 4hrs at UHW carpark 9A on 1st October 2018. I wasnt aware I was overtime and that I'd need to pay a penalty if so. The thing is when you enter the carpark there is no ticketing machine that would give you a timestamp to understand when was actual time that you parked the car. In their letter they show a photo of departure but it is completely dark so you only see the plate and it is not clear where it was taken.

Both letters state if I pay within 14days (that is by 5ht March 2015) I get discounted rate of £40 otherwise I will be charged £70 which should be payed by 20/03/2019. I wanted to understand what's happening and entering the reference number on their website I found they want to charge me £130!

How can they charge £40 (or £70) within the written notice and £130 online, for the same "penalty"?
Is all that legal?

Also In other threads I read that there is a two week deadline for them to issue an invoice, otherwise their claim becomes invalid, is this the case?

What shall I do? please help.

The_Deep

Pay them not one penny until you have informed yourself of the nature of the beast.

This is an entirely unregulated industry which is scamming the public with inflated claims for minor breaches of alleged contracts for alleged parking offences, aided and abetted by a handful of low-rent solicitors. Is has been suggested by an MP that some of these companies may have connections to organised crime.

Parking Eye, CPM, Smart, (especially Smart}, and others have already been named and shamed in the House of Commons as have Gladstones Solicitors, and BW Legal, (these two law firms take hundreds of these cases to court each week), hospital car parks and residential complex tickets have been especially mentioned. They lose most of them, and have been reported to the regulatory authority by an M.P. for unprofessional conduct

The problem become so widespread that MPs agreed to enact a Bill to regulate these scammers. Hopefully, this will become law by Easter .

Read this

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

and complain to your MP

Umkomaas

http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5654/O4F7qX.png

Is that the first letter you received?

Please go to the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 and read there, especially read about 'Golden Ticket' and how to appeal it.

Also In other threads I read that there is a two week deadline for them to issue an invoice, otherwise their claim becomes invalid, is this the case?

You've not read them carefully enough. None of the advice given here would state your misinterpretation.

An ANPR ticket issued after 14 days does not invalidate it, it just means that the PPC cannot use the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (Schedule 4) to hold the keeper liable. Under no circumstances should you inform them who the driver was on the day.

You will need to use the blue text initial appeal template, but add a final paragraph to tell PE that as keeper/hirer they have no case against you.

Important: Given you have already misinterpreted other threads, I suggest you show us the final para you intend to send before you do. There is no need to copy back here the entire initial appeal. Do not alter any part of the template body itself.

KeithP

As this is a hired car, I suggest you read the section about hire cars at the bottom of post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread.

flyingrabbit

Thank you all for replying so quickly and offering advice. I really really appreciate it

In reply to

Umkomaas wrote: »

Is that the first letter you received?

Yes that's the first one I received. And the second one is dated on 1st March but issued on the same day i.e. 20th Feb 2019, and is literally identical, just that is contains a "PCN REMINDER" stamp instead of just "PCN" at the top of the page. Unfortunately rushing in the morning I took a photo the same one so I will post the second one when I get home

They must have been in contact with the car hire company, as how would they otherwise know that I rented that car in that period. The thing is that the car hire company (Budget) has not yet informed me of this or charged me a "fine processing fee" as their T&C states I would be charged for such incidents. * i.e.

Fines and Charges. You must pay for any parking charges or traffic fines incurred during the rental period related to your use of the vehicle. You must pay our processing fee to cover our time in dealing with these fines or charges, unless you are able to show that no loss or damage has occurred or if incurred, is significantly lower than the processing fee.

I guess it would be good to check that with the car hire company, and understand when did they got contacted? And probably would be good to tell them that I have already appealed as a hirer , And tell them not to pay anything if they are asked to do so by ParkingEye as I won't be paying any of their fine processing fees nor will I reimburse them for the parking charge.

Umkomaas wrote: »

Please go to the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 and read there, especially read about 'Golden Ticket' and how to appeal it.
You will need to use the blue text initial appeal template, but add a final paragraph to tell PE that as keeper/hirer they have no case against you.
Do not alter any part of the template body itself.

Were you referring to the "Template appeal for BPA or IPC members - copy this wording into the online appeal box"
Should I be following the : " COMPANY, LEASE OR HIRE CARS ANYWHERE IN THE UK" too?

Umkomaas wrote: »

Important: Given you have already misinterpreted other threads, I suggest you show us the final para you intend to send before you do.

I went through the NEWBIES FAQ rather quickly last night. I will go through all again and write it up. It's just a slow process as I have non-desk-based 10-12hrs workdays and this is another full time job for me
Thank you again for your kind offer to review it before I sent it off. I will post it when it's done ^_^

flyingrabbit

Should I also mention something about the inconsistent amount of charges? The letters state one thing while their website shows amount (£130) - and there's no explanation for the increase. Or does the blue text also already refers to that in a diplomatic way, so there's no need to mention that separately?

flyingrabbit

Hi again. I am sorry for all these silly newbie questions, and for a long post. I would just really appreciate if you can help me understand this correctly.

Also Im posting a scan of the second PCN- the PCNR. And I also include a scan of the back of them both. there's a bit more info about the nature of the charge. The PCNR was sent on 1st March that is 9 days after the PCN was sent and states that if I dont pay by 5th March the charge will increase.

//imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5861/Gt4clQ.png
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Essentially the first one is a PCN/NTK where they've informed me about them being "aware that I was the hirer/lessee of the vehicle at the time of parking event and that the car hire company has provided them with my details." There was no widescreen ticket issued at the time, and this PCN was sent to me way more than in 14 days after the incident. That's why I am protected under the Schedule 4 paragraph 4 and 9 of POFA 2012, is that right?

The back of the initial PCN has a statement that does not make much sense to me: "if, after 22 days from the date given (which is presumed to be the second working day after the Date issued), the Parking Charge has not been paid in full, we will have the right to recover any amount that remains unpaid from you. As such, you are now required to pay or appeal this parking charge. (this warning is given to you under paragraph 14(5)(c) of Schedule 4 of the Protection of freedom ACt 2012 as is subject to our complying with the applicable conditions under schedule 4 of that act) ""

Do they say that PC has to be payed 2 days after the issue date? But at the same time they say that one has 28 days to pay if you read the front of the PCN or if you read the back of PCN is 22 days?

I hope I understand this correctly - since they are sending PCN 4 months after the incident, together with many other branches of the POFA, they cannot impose charges on me anymore and I am not liable for paying?

I've been reading a lot around this forum and went through the POFA... I have modified the blue text a bit and added some extra things that I found elsewhere. Please let me know what you think. Should I wait a bit longer to send it off - as to be sure they dont have enough time to send relevant documentation they'd need to provide me with i.e. my details/ contract with the car hire company, policies?

here it is...

Dear Sir/Madam
Re PCN number:!xxxx

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by ParkingEye Ltd as a Notice to keeper on 20th Feb 2019. I dispute your 'parking charge', as the hirer/keeper of the vehicle and subsequently request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself. As the hirer of this vehicle, in this instance I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) , and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN.!

I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

May you be reminded that according to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 your NTC is in breach of that act. You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why ParkEye’s notice to keeper (NTC) did not comply with POFA; I suggest you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 8 and 9 in particular article (4) and (5), and paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.!

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.!

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.!

Lastly, no window tickets were left on the vehicle on the day of the alleged violation (1st October 2018) As such, the 14 days stipulated in POFA Subparagraphs 9.4 & 9.5 have now been surpassed as I have received the PCN in the post within the period of 20th Feb 2019 to 1st March 2019. To summarise, these subparagraphs state that the notice must be given by sending it by post to a!current address for service for the keeper!so that it is delivered to that address within!14 days starting the day after the parking period ended.

Given that ParkingEye has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

Umkomaas

http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/5861/Gt4clQ.png
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http://imagizer.imageshack.com/img922/3585/K8ka79.png

What have you added/changed in the initial appeal template?

Important: Given you have already misinterpreted other threads, I suggest you show us the final para you intend to send before you do. There is no need to copy back here the entire initial appeal. Do not alter any part of the template body itself.

flyingrabbit

I added the following lines at the beginning and at the end of the blue template

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by ParkingEye Ltd as a Notice to keeper on 20th Feb 2019. I dispute your 'parking charge', as the hirer/keeper of the vehicle and subsequently request all future correspondence be sent directly to myself. As the hirer of this vehicle, in this instance I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) , and I write to formally challenge the validity of this PCN

here then goes the second sentence from the template....

... then I continue with this:

May you be reminded that according to Schedule 4 of POFA 2012 your NTC is in breach of that act. You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why ParkEye’s notice to keeper (NTC) did not comply with POFA; I suggest you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 8 and 9 in particular article (4) and (5), and paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.!

after this goes the rest of the template followed by:

I believe that your signs fail the test of 'large lettering' and prominence, as established in ParkingEye Ltd. Your unremarkable and obscure signs were not seen by the driver, are in very small print and the terms are not readable to drivers.

Further, I understand you do not own the car park and you have given me no information about your policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge. So please supply that policy as required under the Consumer Contracts (Information, Cancellation and Additional Charges) Regulations 2013.

Lastly, no window tickets were left on the vehicle on the day of the alleged violation (1st October 2018) As such, the 14 days stipulated in POFA Subparagraphs 9.4 & 9.5 have now been surpassed as I have received the PCN in the post within the period of 20th Feb 2019 to 1st March 2019. To summarise, these subparagraphs state that the notice must be given by sending it by post to a!current address for service for the keeper!so that it is delivered to that address within!14 days starting the day after the parking period ended.

Given that ParkingEye has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA

Then finishing with the Formal note from the template

flyingrabbit

Would it be necessary to confirm with the car hire company when exactly has PArkingEye got in touch with them and retrieved my details from them?

KeithP

Lastly, no window tickets were left on the vehicle on the day of the alleged violation (1st October 2018) As such, the 14 days stipulated in POFA Subparagraphs 9.4 & 9.5 have now been surpassed as I have received the PCN in the post within the period of 20th Feb 2019 to 1st March 2019. To summarise, these subparagraphs state that the notice must be given by sending it by post to a!current address for service for the keeper!so that it is delivered to that address within!14 days starting the day after the parking period ended.

As this was a hired car, you may want to revise that paragraph.

Perhaps re-read POFA Sch 4 para 13.

The '14 days' only applies to getting the NtK to the Registered Keeper.
Perhaps check if they managed to do that.

The RK then has 28 days, I think, to respond to the PPC.

The PPC then has 21 days to send a NTH to the day to day keeper.