Switch to Now Broadband and have lost old number

YorkshireTyke

Latest update ; Now still say they are unable to rectify this, still infer that I didn't tick the box on the web-form, and claim that they 'have no control' of details entered (or not) on the form [there seems to be quite a few of us posting here and on Now's own forum site with the same issue - i.e. It must be our fault that Now didn't process the order correctly or professionally!]. 
Now closed my help request case ; As I am still within the 14 day 'cooling-off' period, and don't have confidence in the potential for future technical assistance, I have cancelled the order (and will return their router) and have agreed with talktalk to provide my service again - they have promised to give us back our original number, so we wait with fingers crossed. 

iniltous

If TT originally supplied the number ( in other words the required number is from their allocated number range ) then by going back to TT and retrieving the number shouldn’t be a problem, but if the number was previously ported into TT , so not out of their range of numbers, it could be the number has already returned to the number range holder

Turkish_Bird

Apologies for the length of this however we had the same problem as you last September, moving from Post Office to Now Broadband.   We received an email from Now Broadband entitled “important info about your order” We’re really sorry but we’ve had to make a change to your order. We saw that the go live date had changed and assumed this was the issue we didn’t register the fact that our Now phone number would be ******* 

On the go live date we rang our home phone number to check everything had gone through and received a message to say it was not accepting incoming phone calls. We rang Now Broadband who carried out some tests and this is when it came to light that Now Broadband had changed our phone number, also stating I had not ticked the box to keep my phone number – both my husband and I disputed this, we had completed the online form together and why after nearly 40 years would we change our phone number.  I was put through to provisioning to change the phone number back to our original number, unfortunately we were told by Now Broadband they couldn’t do this as the Post Office had kept our phone number. I duly rang the Post Office to be told the phone number was with Now Broadband!!!

 We couldn’t face going back to the PO after the poor Wi-Fi so started to do a trial online order with PlusNet and our original phone number, then spoke to PlusNet via online chat and explained the situation. PlusNet checked our details and confirmed they could supply broadband and phone line with our original phone number. They advised me to cancel my order with Now Broadband, whilst I was in the 14 day period. I rang Now Broadband again, fortunately I spoke to the same guy in cancellations so he knew all about our problem, and cancelled our Now Broadband package from 12/10/19, at this stage I did not have a go live date from PlusNet and a bit unsure whether we would be able to retain our phone number. However PlusNet Customer Service were brilliant they contacted me by mobile and e-mail and kept us updated every step of the way.  Unfortunately Now Broadband put a pending cease on the line which was due to complete on 13/10/19,  and because of this PlusNet were unable to place an order to activate the line and broadband until the cease had been completed.  As a result of the incompetence by Now Broadband our internet (and phone line) was disconnected on the 12/10/19 and finally reconnected by PlusNet on 25/10/19 with our original phone number 

We complained to Now Broadband in writing and they closed our complaint without even contacting us.  We then complained to the Chief Executive of Sky TV, we eventually received a reply stating we were at fault for not ticking the box to keep our phone number, incidentally the spelling and grammar in this letter was diabolical!!

YorkshireTyke

Thanks Turkish_Bird for sharing your experience ; Its important to warn other forum users about the un-professionalism of Now, and that this particular issue is (still) rife.  My original number was allocated to Virgin around 30 years ago, and ported to talktalk in late 2014 - TT assured me when I spoke to their sales team that they can reconnect us to that number.  

To update some previous posts re. number porting and service providers ; If a provider stops trading there may be an interruption to internet provision, but there should be no reason why telephone service should be directly affected. 

A user is connected to their local exchange by "hard" wires, and the equipment and network is owned and administered by Openreach who use your 'number' to route calls to you, and route your outgoing calls to recipients based on their 'number'.  (I assume Openreach monitor and log usage, providing details to service 'providers' and billing them at an agreed rate for lines and calls, whereas the service provider bills their customers at a mark-up).

There should no reason that comms routing would be physically affected by a provider going bust, but Openreach would not be able to charge a provider for use until Ofcom agrees for another provider to take over that service provision.

(This may be different for customers of Virgin, who connect households to telephone exchanges via their own cable network.). 

Internet service is a different issue because, though the physical network carrying signal traffic will continue operating through Openreach's lines and exchanges, the service provider's internet servers (computers) may not. 

The router connected to the household phone socket is configured to tag outgoing data packets with the specific destination (IP) address of the provider's internet server(s), which then pass them on to the 'world-wide-web' - if the servers are not running then the 'portal' into the web is closed (i.e. no service!). 

With regard to telephone number 'porting', all numbers are 'owned' by Openreach (a number is not a physical entity, just a 'code' which facilitates switching and routing of the signal to a specific address). 

(A typical phone number, 0123-4567899 or 01234-567899, is a coded method of routing signals through the network via a specific exchange to a house / office ; the 0 indicates an internal network (UK) destination, and the 123 or 1234 dictates the local exchange - the rest indicates which local junction box(es) and outgoing cable to house should be used.)

Openreach allocate blocks of numbers to individual service providers, and charges 'line rental' and usage (calls) to the provider who re-charges the end customer.  (I think service providers still pay Openreach a rental cost for numbers allocated to them but not actually connected to a customer.). 

Households are linked to the network by physical wires connected to their local exchange via a junction box somewhere nearby ; a 'number' is allocated to an individual house by joining their cable to another which routes the connection from / to the local exchange - this may be a 'hard' connection ('jumper lead'), or in some cases may be a 'soft' connection performed by electronic exchange equipment (administered by computer software). 

When a household's telephone number is changed it should simply be a case of altering the link-connection between the cable coming from the house and the cable coming from the exchange - either by changing a jump-lead or using software to change the routing.  Where the number remains unchanged but a different service provider takes over provision, then Openreach needs to amend their record of allocation for that 'number' so that the new provider is charged for its use - i.e. the number is 'ported' to the new provider.  

I think Openreach charge for their number porting services, and it is cheaper for a 'new' provider to simply allocate one of the (unused) numbers already allocated to them ; Now customer services told me (by email) that they do not subscribe to the Openreach Number Porting service - I'm not sure, but I think that may also apply to Sky. 

Using a currently unconnected number from their allocated range may also make more economic sense to a provider, because they may already be paying Openreach for that 'number' (exchange connection) even though they don't get any income for it? 

iniltous

Not all of your thinking is correct, Ofcom own all numbers and allocate them in blocks to service providers, currently the PSTN ( publicly switched telephone network ) has nothing at all to do with Openreach ( OR is the physical network from the exchange to premises , the ‘wires’ and external line plant ) in the case of customers of company’s that use ‘BT’ PSTN switches , they are controlled and maintained by BT TSO, but Sky and TT and others don’t use BT TSO, they own and operate their own equipment.
Your assertion that a phone number is just an ‘address’, and you can redirect calls is correct, to a certain extent, there is also an attempt to maintain the integrity of the national numbering scheme, so you cannot ‘port’ a number from one city to another, the idea was that if you don’t move home , just change provider then the same number should be deliverable by that new company.

Number portability is a reciprocal arrangement, want to import number ( that’s good for gaining customers ) you must also port your numbers at request ( that’s a cost to your business) , it’s not the case that OR make money out of each and every port, for example there is no a Openreach involvement at all in a port between TT and Sky for example, apart from ensuring a viable copper pair exists to the end users address,  BT TSO  are not involved in the call switching ,  but by coordinating the ISP’s , using the common ordering system that ‘OR’ providers use.

YorkshireTyke

The saga continues! ; I agreed over the phone that talktalk would take back my service provision if they gave back the number I had with them since 2014 ; Net result to date = no contact from TT prior to reconnection and service resumed on 28/04 with yet another number.  I cannot access our account via the web as it still shows only details of the previous account (to 23/04) - no chat facility and customer service line plays pre-recorded message saying to use website and drops the call.  Have managed to speak to the sales team 4 times, who say its a c/s issue and twice promised me a callback (which hasn't happened) and on one occasion 'transferred' me to c/s (i.e. a call queue) which ultimately cut me off, as above.  Currently halfway through 14 distance selling period, and reviewing options! 

YorkshireTyke

I wonder if Iniltous (posted above) could explain to me how my calls would have been routed, and what equipment would be involved, after my number was 'ported' from Virgin to Talktalk in 2014?  The number was a 01355-90 number on the East Kilbride exchange, from a series originally allocated to Virgin. 

iniltous

AFAIK, if you moved from VM to Talk Talk, taking with you a number that is from VM’s numbers range , then TT provision your outgoing service on their equipment , ( using OR’s physical cable pair to get their service into your home , this is OR’s  only involvement,  and the only thing they are paid for , obviously they have no involvement with how VM or TT deal with telephone call ‘traffic’)
TT can pretty much put any presentation number on their service they want , and in your case , that would be the VM directory number you want,  but TT need to advise VM of the  software /equipment , number/address (EN) that your service occupies on TT’s equipment.
To port your incoming calls to TT , VM need this virtual  ‘address’.
Your DN ( directory number ) effectively remains provided on the VM switch ,  any incoming call to your DN, although initially routed to VM, the VM ‘network’ processor, sees that the VM DN is set as a ported number , and deals appropriately, this could be the calling line network processor is told to set a new call path using the TT virtual ‘ address’ and the call on the VM network is disconnected, or the VM network sets up a call path to the TT ‘address’ and if the TT customer ‘answers’ the VM network completes the connection, either way the VM network is involved either in redirecting the call or in the actual call path.
This is a use of VM’s assets , even though you no longer have no relationship with them, so it’s a cost they carry but gain no benefit from, no wonder they don’t loose sleep if it doesn’t work how you want it to, you are not their customer, and generally it would be the gaining company’s error, not theirs , so they can afford to say they have no responsibility if TT messed up, they don’t need to employ any back office type function to sort it out, if it fails , it fails.
TT network is ( again AFAIK) an IP system, rather than the digital switches that BT and VM use, so there may differences in a VM to TT port, than say a BT to VM port, but in principle the same methodology.
I’m not ( and have never claimed to be ) an expert on this, but it’s how the process was once explained to me , but again many years ago , long before TT  or Sky were network operators but simply wholesale customers of BT.
Ofcom are looking at this whole landline number port process , because if a number range holder went bust, and some of their DN’s were ported to other providers, the bust company wouldn’t be in a position to be involved in the incoming call set up, ( their network being closed) the ported customer would stop receiving some if not all incoming calls, and as you have found out, many ports go wrong, some down to poor customer service, some possibly as at a corporate level , the focus is on getting a new customer to accept a new number , as it’s easier, rather than the complexity of two networks being involved  in incoming calls 
Sorry about the long post, but it’s quite a complicated process.

YorkshireTyke

Could I ask Turkish_Bird what provider was the registered 'custodian' of the number that Plusnet was able to recover?  You can find out by using this website - "ukphoneinfo" (.com) 
i.e. When I put in my 'lost' number 01355-90xxxx it tells me that 01355-90 is a range of numbers allocated to Virgin ; similarly the 01455-70xxxx number allocated by Now belongs to a Sky range of nos., and 01355-45xxxx given by Talktalk was allocated to Talktalk.  
The reason that I ask is that if your recovered number was originally with BT it may have been easier for Plusnet to grab it back for you than they could for my originally Virgin number, as Plusnet is a subsidiary of BT. 

Turkish_Bird

To confirm our number was/is a BT number,originally allocated to us in 1980, this was the reason we opted for PlusNet (being a subsidiary of BT) We've never had problems with porting our number previously, and our son-in-law had no problems moving to Now - and kept their BT number but their package included free TV.  However our thinking behind the issues we had with Now broadband is the fact they were unable to provide us with free phone calls on another providers phone number!!