I think I've messed up my appeal :(

MistyZ

If you search this board for 'POPLA frustration of contract' you'll find examples of how to word this point. For example, this thread shows the OP gradually improving their frustration of contract section:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5961221/attempted-unsuccessfully-to-buy-a-ticket-left-car-park-received-pcn&highlight=popla+frustration+of+contract

I think it would be better to make the frustration of contract point one discrete section.

You then need other sections such as 'signage' and 'no landowner authority'.

I doubt your point about CCTV will get anywhere .... others may have a different view however. The PPCs rely on ANPR technology which only records images of the car entering & leaving.

Point 4 is also very unlikely to cut any ice. Frankly, people do take their chances sometimes, so whether that makes sense or not it just isn't an argument.

POPLA appeals win on technicalities which is, in my opinion, very unfair! But it's the reality. So look for the technical points which do apply. Having said that, explanation of the frustration of contract bit will require some explanation about the issues you had with the stupid machine, so word that as clearly as possible.

Redx

the CCTV is irrelevant because they have no idea who the people actually are , even if they did have CCTV footage, this isnt NCIS or CSI MIAMI , any people on the CCTV are anonymous and they dont have access to DVLA data like you see on USA programmes to match people to driving licences

ANPR cameras are usually used, not CCTV

as above, its all about technicalities, including frustration of contract , signage , no landowner contract etc

Sammy5

Okay, thank you all for your help. It looks as though point 1 is the one to go for. I'll give it some thought this evening and read through more examples on here. Thanks again

atroublestarter

I didn't fully understand the answer by waamo as to whether it was relevant that they told you the wrong option number for machine faults but, if you have an Apple device, from my experience it's difficult to record phone conversations unless you put it on loudspeaker and use another device to record.


On an android device, you can use https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=call.recorder.automatic.acr

It does work quite reliably. I THINK waamo is perhaps saying though you don't need to record it, because if you say they gave you the wrong option then they have to prove you wrong. I wonder how easy it is for them to change their options around though? I'm sure you're just a drop in the ocean and not worth going to that effort for, though!

MistyZ

Sammy5 wrote: »

It looks as though point 1 is the one to go for. I'll give it some thought this evening and read through more examples on here. Thanks again

For me anyway, the frustration of contract section would be the one to spend most time on as it has to relate to the specific ways in which your attempts at payment were foiled, so a bit of tweaking required.

But don't rely on one point alone. You need to realise that the PPCs mess up in all sorts of ways. They really do use inadequate signage, their contracts with the landowner are often a mess or even non-existent. Those two sections tend to be pretty standard, it's easy to find examples that only need a little bit of adapting.

However do read some signage examples carefully, that way you'll understand the usual issues with signage. And then, ideally, get some photos of the car park and signage that will help illustrate the key points you will make in your appeal.

Coupon-mad

Sammy5 wrote: »

Unfortunately I did say 'I' and effectively admitted it was me. Although the fact I've done nothing wrong means I shouldn't really have to hide that fact,

It doesn't matter that you said who was driving! Britannia use the POFA so it makes no difference in most cases.

You could blame MSE Towers, THEY messed up their 'advice' and dreadful template years ago and have steadfastly left the 'appeal' example on this site as a truly awful one, making people like you blab about the driver and try to use mitigation, none of which is the right approach.

clearly doing the right thing and the punishment administered from these racketeers are not exactly aligned. It's just horrible.

Yes we agree, which is why we are are every day an why the NEWBIES thread at the top shows you POPLA templates in post #3.

It seems bizarre to me that there is an appeals process which you effectively can't use for fear or having to pay more.

Welcome to PCNs. Council appeals work the same way, this is nothing new.

Send the PPC a SAR, urgently by email to their DPO, asking for a copy of the records from the PDT machine that show a 70p payment made by you, shortly after you arrived, and the partial or complete VRN recorded next to it.

If you search the NEWBIES thread (control & F) for SAR and you will see it explained.

No-one here would pay this. What happened when you complained to the landowner?

waamo

atroublestarter wrote: »

I didn't fully understand the answer by waamo as to whether it was relevant that they told you the wrong option number for machine faults but, if you have an Apple device, from my experience it's difficult to record phone conversations unless you put it on loudspeaker and use another device to record.


On an android device, you can use https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=call.recorder.automatic.acr

It does work quite reliably. I THINK waamo is perhaps saying though you don't need to record it, because if you say they gave you the wrong option then they have to prove you wrong. I wonder how easy it is for them to change their options around though? I'm sure you're just a drop in the ocean and not worth going to that effort for, though!

I'm saying it's for the ppc to prove their case. If you assert the number is wrong then the burden of proof lies with the parking company.

In saying that actual verifiable evidence is always better and carries more weight/

Sammy5

Hi all,

Thanks for your help and advice, I truly appreciate it. A small update...

A couple of evenings back I went to the restaurant next to the car park (their name is on the signs in the car park). I took my partner and bought her a meal, as it's quite a drive and I still owed her a Valentine's present I spoke to the manager there about the ticket and he said they could get it cancelled. I'd taken the letter to ask them about it, so off he went... 20 minutes later he found our table and said he'd put it through and it should be cleared the next day. So that was a nice surprise!

Only thing is, I haven't heard anything since. So it's a silly question perhaps, but would it be prudent to check with Britannia that it's cancelled, or do I risk anything in doing that?

Thanks,
Sam

Coupon-mad

Well done!

Yes, you could either:

- log in using the PCN number (pretend to 'pay') to see if it shows as 'cancelled' or zero.

or

- email the DPO email (see their privacy page) and remind the DPO that the PCN is cancelled and ask how soon your data will be erased, as you want to know they have done.

Sammy5

They don't seem to have an e-mail address (not one that they want people getting hold of, at least!). So I'll call them tomorrow to double-check that they've deleted my details. Thanks once again