I think I've messed up my appeal :(

Sammy5

Hi,

I made an appeal not too long ago to a parking fine and I did do quite a bit of reading up on it before I sent it (I used a template from here actually). The only thing is, I think by essentially admitting I was the driver, I might've lost a very good way of getting out of it. I honestly did pay, that's the most frustrating thing about it all. It was from Britannia. Here's the letter I sent:

You issued me with a parking ticket on 1st February but I believe it was unfairly issued. I decline your invitation to name the driver, which is not required of me as the keeper of the vehicle. I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

* Mitigating circumstances

There are mitigating circumstances to explain why the vehicle was parked where it was and the charge should be waived for this reason. I paid the fee as requested and entered my details on your machine. I typed in the car registration in full and clicked for a ticket. However, no ticket was issued, although it seemed to have gone through okay. I noticed several other vehicles without tickets, so my initial thought was that the machine must have run out of paper to print tickets on. It then occurred to me that it didn’t issue tickets at all, because it stores the information in a database. However, I wanted clarification, so I tried to call your company using the number provided in the car park. I enclose a printout of my phone bill, which clearly shows that I tried to call the number provided for assistance at 10.55 (duration 38 seconds), but received no answer. Note that it includes the ID, which you can verify with my mobile provider (Tesco Mobile). How can I possibly receive clarity on the status of your machines and whether they are working correctly, if I’m unable to contact a representative from your company? Having paid for my ticket and not received the print out, I double-checked and the machine would not refund the money I paid, which would confirm it had gone through without any problems. Knowing that this information feeds through to a database and knowing I had paid the correct amount, I didn’t think for one moment there would be an issue here, because I had done nothing wrong. The fact that your machine is either faulty or had some glitch of sorts which prevented this going through is not my fault.

* The charge is disproportionate and not commercially justifiable

I was only parked there for 40 minutes. The charge for one hour (if I recall correctly) was approximately 70p, or thereabouts. I therefore feel that even if I had parked there without paying (and I want to be absolutely clear about this – I did pay) - a charge of £60-100 is excessive, as it in no way reflects the costs involved to your business.

Finally, I have to add that it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever for me to go into a car park which clearly has cameras in place, then park and deliberately not pay. If you have CCTV in the car park, which I’m sure you must, you will clearly be able to see me get out of my car, walk over to the machine, take out my wallet, put money in the machine and enter my registration details. It makes absolutely no logical sense for me to risk a massive penalty for the sake of a 70p (or thereabouts) charge. I paid for the parking and therefore the charge should be waived.

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

Yours faithfully

Redx

too many instances of the word I in your appeal

what you SHOULD have sent as keeper was the blue text appeal from post #1 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread

presumably you are awaiting their reply within the 35 days allowed ?

Sammy5

Today I received the letter I expected, stating that the rules are clearly there for me to see and I must display a valid ticket etc. etc.. Most irritatingly it states:

'Should you find yourself unable to operate our car parking machines, the signage clearly shows contact details for Britannia Parking which are accessible 24 hrs (option 6 - fault line).'

This was some time ago, but I seem to recall there just being no answer. And further to that, the contact number was not at all clearly visible and it took me quite a while to spot it.

Apparently I have 14 days to pay at the 'discounted rate' (god knows why that's discounted - it seems to be an figure arbitrarily plucked from the sky and in no way reflective of the costs involved!). If I choose to appeal to POPLA then I 'lose the right' to pay the PCN at the discounted rate and should it not go in my favour, I must pay the full amount.

So the question is - please could you advise if in your opinion it's worth pursuing? Not holding anyone to account for anything, but would the odds be in my favour?

Any advice or suggestions would be most welcome.

Many thanks,
Sam

waamo

At least that wasn't a POPLA appeal. You might be able to rescue this at POPLA. I think you realise now that having admitted being the driver it hampers your appeal.

The good news is that it doesn't kill your appeal, there are still plenty of other grounds. Keep reading up on POPLA appeals but leave out any mention of POFA compliance. That no longer applies.

Sammy5

Unfortunately I did say 'I' and effectively admitted it was me. Although the fact I've done nothing wrong means I shouldn't really have to hide that fact, but clearly doing the right thing and the punishment administered from these racketeers are not exactly aligned. It's just horrible.

Redx

cannot tell you if you would win or not, thats in the lap of the gods, so if I could foresee the future I would be getting paid like mystic meg, not coming here for free

that aside, the discounted fee is set in the BPA CoP that you did not read , the 40% discount compared to the full charge listed on their signage, so if it says £100 the discount rate is £60

I would appeal to popla using the usual legal arguments, but its YOUR CHOICE to make , not ours

KeithP

Sammy5 wrote: »

If I choose to appeal to POPLA then I 'lose the right' to pay the PCN at the discounted rate and should it not go in my favour, I must pay the full amount.

That is simply wrong.

Even if you were to lose at PoPLA you do not have to pay the full amount - or indeed, any amount.

A PoPLA decision is not binding on the motorist.

Sammy5

I realise the £60 is 'discounted' from £100, what I mean is that the £100 seems in no way reflective of anything reasonable. I parked there for 40 minutes at a cost (or so I thought) of 70p. I did read the signs. If it costs 70p to park for an hour, how does £100 reflect the cost to them of me having not paid?

Redx

its the default charge for not following the rules, and the £100 "maximum" came in around 2012, so is the accepted "norm"

plus the BEAVIS case decided that £85 WAS NOT unreasonable, and that case finished in 2017

so complaining about it now is a washout

so you are late to the party, which has been in full swing for several years

get on a tram or bus here in manchester and fare dodge, and you are charged the default fare, not the ticket price

Sammy5

KeithP wrote: »

That is simply wrong.

Even if you were to lose at PoPLA you do not have to pay the full amount - or indeed, any amount.

A PoPLA decision is not binding on the motorist.

That's interesting. They state as point 3:

Make an appeal to POPLA - The Independent Appeals Service. Please note that if you wish to appeal to POPLA, you will lose the right to pay the Parking Charge Notice at the discounted rate, and should POPLA's decision not go in your favour you will be required to pay the full amount. If you opt to pay the Parking Charge Notice you will be unable to appeal to POPLA.

So are they lying? It seems bizarre to me that there is an appeals process which you effectively can't use for fear or having to pay more.

Sammy5

Redx wrote: »

its the default charge for not following the rules, and the £100 "maximum" came in around 2012, so is the accepted "norm"

plus the BEAVIS case decided that £85 WAS NOT unreasonable, and that case finished in 2017

so complaining about it now is a washout

so you are late to the party, which has been in full swing for several years

get on a tram or bus here in manchester and fare dodge, and you are charged the default fare, not the ticket price

I'm not sure that really helps me much, but thanks. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm complaining, but £60 is a lot of money to me. I feel sick inside, truth be told.