Thank Goodness Brexit will not halt immigration

MobileSaver

MisterMotivated wrote: »

even the transaction you claim bring so much extra wealth to the country could be facilitated even without foreign ownership of assets.

Are you related to Trump? You just cannot admit when you are wrong can you and instead keep moving the goalposts.

Yes of course the extra wealth could be facilitated without foreign ownership however the extra wealth doesn't magically disappear just because a property is owned by a Frenchman instead of a Brit.

MisterMotivated wrote: »

Otherwise, why don't we all just agree to rent houses from one another for £10,000 a week? Then we'll be the wealthiest country in the world by miles!!

Yes, you're right, I think you are finally beginning to understand how economics works and how a country's wealth is calculated.

What your facetious comment doesn't cover though is that you cannot take the "paying of the rent" in isolation. There's tax to pay on the rent, there's maintenance on the house, there's the extra hours and training needed to be able to get a job that affords £10,000 a week rent.

All of those things are "personal consumption" and they all contribute towards the country's wealth. And, guess what, that wealth is created regardless of whether a foreign or British person owns the property.

MisterMotivated wrote: »

let me be clear that "extra wealth to the country" is not the same as "extra wealth to the government and less wealth to its citizens"

Are you now backtracking from "[MisterMotivated] In what way does the country benefit?"

Regardless I will ask again as you seem to be ignoring the question... How can any business contribute extra wealth to the country if your assertion is that all it is doing is redistributing money from people already in the country?

phillw

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The UK banks are majority owned by overseas investors.

Unless I own the bank then who owns it has absolutely no impact on me. I wonder why anyone would care?

Thrugelmir wrote: »

The UK is running out of silver in the cupboard to sell.

Are you saying we should start stealing silver from foreigners again?

MisterMotivated wrote: »

Also, I may be wrong, but I believe foreign landlords are able to claim the same tax allowances as UK landlords (assuming you mean on mortgage interest, etc?)

I meant personal tax allowance as they are treated as companies even if they own it in their own name. A foreigner who only has UK income below the 40% rate is therefore taxed more than a UK/EU citizen that has UK income below the 40% rate.

MisterMotivated wrote: »

But still results in some of our (citizens') money leaving the country.

It is not "our (citizens)" money as money belongs to whomever possesses it. Technically when transferring the money out of the UK they will sell their sterling to buy a foreign currency, that sterling will then be sold to someone trying to transfer money into the UK. No different to UK landlords putting the money into the bank and it being used for other purposes while it sits there.

UK landlords are more likely to use their profit to buy more houses in the UK, further pushing the price up. Again a foreign landlord can do the same thing, essentially there is no real difference other than prejudice between them.

MisterMotivated wrote: »

Yes, they can. Nobody's contesting that.

Well you appear to be, if there is no difference between UK and foreign owners then what is your point?

MisterMotivated

MobileSaver wrote: »

There's tax to pay on the rent, there's maintenance on the house, there's the extra hours and training needed to be able to get a job that affords £10,000 a week rent (except everyone will have £10k extra income to fund their £10k extra expenses so that point is moot).



All of those things contribute towards the country's wealth.

I think you mean GDP

MobileSaver

MisterMotivated wrote: »

I think you mean GDP

Yes, GDP, the universally accepted method of calculating a country's wealth in the imperfect world we live in.

I note you are still not explaining how any business can generate wealth based on your "redistribution" assertions so I think we can safely assume you yourself have realised how foolish and simply untrue your comments were.

MisterMotivated

MobileSaver wrote: »

Yes, GDP, the universally accepted method of calculating a country's wealth in the imperfect world we live in.

Except that GDP simply shows the value of goods produced over a year. Calling it a calculation of wealth due to lack of a good way to quantify the actual wealth of a country (though the UN published a report several years ago that made an attempt at this - strangely showing that the USA's 'wealth' was 10 times its GDP), is completely inaccurate, as most people and organisations agree. If I earned £10,000 a year, have £900,000 in assets and £200,000 in debts, I wouldn't consider my wealth to be £10,000.

I note you are still not explaining how any business can generate wealth based on your "redistribution" assertions

I already answered your repetitive question - why don't you try some of that backtracking you're so fond of?

Thrugelmir

phillw wrote: »

Unless I own the bank then who owns it has absolutely no impact on me. I wonder why anyone would care?

:think:

Are you saying we should start stealing silver from foreigners again?

:wall:

I meant personal tax allowance as they are treated as companies even if they own it in their own name. A foreigner who only has UK income below the 40% rate is therefore taxed more than a UK/EU citizen that has UK income below the 40% rate.

:think:


It is not "our (citizens)" money as money belongs to whomever possesses it. Technically when transferring the money out of the UK they will sell their sterling to buy a foreign currency, that sterling will then be sold to someone trying to transfer money into the UK. No different to UK landlords putting the money into the bank and it being used for other purposes while it sits there.

:think:

UK landlords are more likely to use their profit to buy more houses in the UK, further pushing the price up. Again a foreign landlord can do the same thing, essentially there is no real difference other than prejudice between them.

:coffee:

Well you appear to be, if there is no difference between UK and foreign owners then what is your point?

:wall:

:j:j:j:j:j:j

MisterMotivated

phillw wrote: »

I meant personal tax allowance as they are treated as companies even if they own it in their own name.

Ah, so they should be paying corporation tax at 19% instead of the standard UK income tax rate, which is generally 20%, rising to 40% for higher rate taxpayers? I've left out the personal tax allowance on purpose as I'd imagine most (though not all) landlords will already have other sources of income taking them over this threshold.

Well you appear to be, if there is no difference between UK and foreign owners then what is your point?

Feel free to quote anywhere I contested that. My point is that foreign property investors extract more money from the UK and its people long term than they put in (unless they make very poor investments).

phillw

MisterMotivated wrote: »

Feel free to quote anywhere I contested that. My point is that foreign property investors extract more money from the UK and its people long term than they put in (unless they make very poor investments).

1. You can't prove that, foreign investors and english investors can equally choose to leave their money in the UK or move it out.

2. You haven't given any indication why it makes any difference where money is.

Which makes you look like you don't look like foreign investors because they are foreign, rather than an actual problem they are causing. There is a word for that....

MisterMotivated

phillw wrote: »

1. You can't prove that, foreign investors and english investors can equally choose to leave their money in the UK or move it out.

You’re right, I can’t prove that people who invest in the UK to make a profit, actually make a profit. Nor can I prove that those who do make a profit don’t just give it away to random Brits. As a British investor, I know whenever I make money on US shares, I spend all the profits on a shopping spree at Walmart in Sarasota. Why are you so quick to criticise English investors though? If they want to move money offshore, who are we to stop them? And what about Scottish, Welsh or Irish investors? Are you implying they’re too poor or stupid to make good investments? There’s a word for that...

2. You haven't given any indication why it makes any difference where money is.

It makes no real difference to me that there’s potentially less money in the UK. You see though, it's not about where in the world the (profit) money is, it's about where in the world it is most likely to be spent.

My arguments are falling apart so I’m just going to call you a racist instead...

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
When did I say I don’t like foreigners? And what problem did I say they cause?

phillw

MisterMotivated wrote: »

When did I say I don’t like foreigners? And what problem did I say they cause?

You're complaining that they take money out of the UK economy, without explaining why that is bad and what right you have to stop it & why you don't want to stop british people taking their money out of the country.

MisterMotivated wrote: »

it's about where in the world it is most likely to be spent.

So it's bad when they spend their money on property in the UK, but you want them to spend their money here? What other discriminatory statements do you want to make?