Staff outing - only ladies invited

ArcticRoll

Dean000000 wrote: »

Op is spot on though.... that email is basically an invite for a night out - which excludes half the office.

It’s arbitrary and who’s to say what is an acceptable spilt?

Night out - Europeans only

Night out - those with names starting with a - m

Night out - only for those born south of the Watford gap

Night out - those that went grammar school only

Etc etc.

This is my point. I also feel that cancelling the event rather than opening it up to everyone is, at the very least, a fairly swift kick in the teeth for office relations given that a good 30% of the office are now aware that management would rather cancel an event that invite them along.

NeilCr

ArcticRoll wrote: »

This is my point. I also feel that cancelling the event rather than opening it up to everyone is, at the very least, a fairly swift kick in the teeth for office relations given that a good 30% of the office are now aware that management would rather cancel an event that invite them along.

Alternatively, 70% of the office are p""""d off with you for raising it and, at least, some of the 30% aren't that fussed.

I am not getting at you at all because I agree with you. It certainly was very badly handled by the office manager. It should have been unofficial. It's just that, personally, it's not something that would bother me hugely and others may think the same.

I suspect, also, that it may well be the ladies themselves who wanted the event so it was never going to be something you were likely to be going to be able to attend. As I say they should have kept it to themselves and not made it official.

pinkshoes

Marvel1 wrote: »

They shouldn't have to ask, as you stated it should be open to all form the start.

No, they don't have to ask. They can come and see me at any other break time, lunch time, or after school.

If it was open to all my "target audience" wouldn't come...

So if a quiet/shy boy wanted to come along to the group, that would be fine, but my aim is to prevent the loud/arrogant type from turning up which would defeat the purpose of the group.

John_G_Jones

TELLIT01 wrote: »

Despite it being mentioned in the first sentence, I had missed the fact that it was Civil Service. Now I am not in the least surprised it happened, and happened in the way it did. From my experience many managers aren't just on a different planet, they inhabit a different universe.
That said, what would the reaction have been had the event been a 'Ladies Night' at a club or a Spa evening. Would the OP still expect to be invited?

We are told very clearly to avoid choices of evening event that would tend to exclude certain groups.

John_G_Jones

Brynsam wrote: »

Massive overreaction to something which really isn't that important. First world 'problem'...

Given the OP lives in the first world that’s to be expected. Did you not post a while back about an issue with iPhoto?..

And OP, well done on calling out sexism at work, everyone should.

John_G_Jones

pinkshoes wrote: »

A women only night out is daft.

I worked in engineering, and still get invited on their nights out, albeit I am the only female that goes. Their whatsapp group message always starts with "beer night lads?" but that includes me

Saying that, I teach a subject where our girls do far worse than boys, so I run a girls only club at lunch for those that struggle. I aim tontarget specific kids who refuse to ask for help in class. I do allow boys to come though if they ask why it is girls only and really want to come!

But back to the point - if there is no specific reason why it needs to be ladies only (e.g. a night discussing periods and sanitary protection) then it should be open for all.

Now now, men can have periods too nowadays, just as women can have female penises.

pinkshoes

ArcticRoll wrote: »

Hi. As a boy that would be one of those who suffered from shyness as a child, if I was struggling with a subject I'd likely refuse to put my hand up and ask for help in class and I'd definitely wouldn't be inclined to argue with my teacher that I should be allowed extra support.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but why is the class not for children who struggle and refuse to ask for help rather than for girls who struggle and refuse to ask to help and put a barrier in front of the boys accessing additional support?

Of course I don't know much about the situation other than what you've said but I'd be fairly annoyed if I was a parent and my child was struggling with a subject but who had to challenge the teacher to receive additional support that was on offer to other children, just because he was a boy.

I get the idea behind targeting children that struggle but put yourself in the shoes of a child who is struggling, who finds if hard to ask for help maybe because of anxiety or shyness that can affect children of that age. You find out that other children are being offered additional support but you're not because you have a penis and you'll never get that help unless, as a child who finds it hard to ask for help because of shyness or anxiety, you somehow pluck up the courage to confront your teacher to demand extra support, despite already being a child who doesn't even feel comfortable enough to ask for help during class.

Also by calling it a 'Girls only club', aren't you encouraging boys to stigmatise asking for/receiving additional help as being something 'girly'. Given that boys/men in general struggle to ask for help in so many other areas of life as an adult, instilling in them in children that additional support, help and guidence is something 'for the girls', even in this small seemingly benign and no doubt well-intentioned way, possibly plant the seeds for something more dangerous.

So how would you recommend I target this specific group of girls who on average are at least one if not two grades lower than the boys in the final exam?


There is a statistical significance in their data and they NEED helping to bridge the gap.



If it was a general revision class, they wouldn't come. The girls I am targeting feel intimidated by the majority of boys in the class.



There is also a revision class after school for ALL kids. So it's not like the boys have no other options. This is an additional class as I know my target students won't attend the other one and I want them to do well.



ps - I don't get paid for these revision sessions. I give up my lunch break and other free time. (as do most teachers nowadays)

Chop-D

ArcticRoll wrote: »

Okay it's not the worst example of discrimination in the world but it still makes me feel kinda crap. As a gay man I don't always feel comfortable in an environment with all men. There might also be trans people in the office whose trans status is not declared to management who would be put out by that.

I feel you did the right thing. This quote in particular is a feeling I have had too where there has been separate female and male training for the same content, it made me feel uncomfortable and I would have felt more included in a mixed course.

wild666

If it was a men only event the women would have complained and some might even have gone to a tribunal for sex discrimination. if you still have the email it could be what would find in your favour at a tribunal.

Comms69

pinkshoes wrote: »

So how would you recommend I target this specific group of girls who on average are at least one if not two grades lower than the boys in the final exam?


There is a statistical significance in their data and they NEED helping to bridge the gap.



If it was a general revision class, they wouldn't come. The girls I am targeting feel intimidated by the majority of boys in the class.



There is also a revision class after school for ALL kids. So it's not like the boys have no other options. This is an additional class as I know my target students won't attend the other one and I want them to do well.



ps - I don't get paid for these revision sessions. I give up my lunch break and other free time. (as do most teachers nowadays)

Perhaps if they need special attention to achieve what others are capable of doing without it, then this subject isn't the one for them?