Miss R versus VCS Ltd

beamerguy

JesterShoe wrote: »

Just shooting the breeze here, what would be the legal ramifications of making my own parking permit? With the wording something like:

Valid Parking Permit/Ticket
I have signed no contract nor given my consent to any charges against this vehicle
Reg: XXXXXXXX how ever caused.

Anything attached to this vehicle without prior written consent will be removed, by force if necessary and will incur a removal fee of £XXX payable on demand.

Any queries contact XXXXXXX

It's your car and property so no problem.
The monkeys that PPC's employ are in the lower band of intelligence who will not understand

You are just as entitled to invoice them

Umkomaas

Not a lot of use in an ANPR car park. But such stuff has been discussed many times. I know of no cases where it has worked.

Stick one in your car, then go and attract a goon!

[Deleted User]

You got a copy of the signage on this? 2 tickets within 24 hours is not normally permitted even within PPC terms, which usually provide for a charge in each 24 hour period. Indeed the realisation of this this may be why two separate claims were issued, rather than one (as supposed to them just being a bit rubbish).

Thus, even if the court isn't with you on the argument that the first ticket is unenforceable/shouldn't have been issued, they should dismiss the second. It also follows that all charges related to the second go.

Most signs fail to adequately specify liquidated damages charges so all costs should go in relation to the bolt on costs too.

JesterShoe

The reason for my permit question, is what is a valid permit in the eyes of the law?

I have walked around our residents parking area and found a multitude of different permits, some expired 2015, some expired 2016, some are the original permit before VCS, some are sun bleached and are totally blank. One vehicle has removed his number plates and has no permit.

If the signage says ' You must display a valid permit' which they've not bothered to manage correctly as it costs money, surely there can be no contract.

JesterShoe

Ok we're on track, both DQ's and cover letters sent to CCBC and VCS.

JesterShoe

Johnersh wrote: »

You got a copy of the signage on this? 2 tickets within 24 hours is not normally permitted even within PPC terms, which usually provide for a charge in each 24 hour period. Indeed the realisation of this this may be why two separate claims were issued, rather than one (as supposed to them just being a bit rubbish).

Thanks Johnersh for the pointer which made me read the IPC Code of Practice. I found this:

19. Period of Parking
Parking operators must ensure that they only issue parking charges in accordance with their advertised terms on any site. Such terms shall not entitle any operator to issue more than one parking charge in the same calender day for the same parking event. In the event of a new calendar day the operator must not issue a further parking charge for the same parking event within a 12 hour period from when the previous parking charge was issued. Where a vehicle is moved at any point, this constitutes a new parking event.

One PCN was at 19:40 and the other was 08:40 the following morning.:mad: (Times have been changed to protect the innocent):lipsrseal

But I also found this:
(g) Explain that if the full amount of the charge is not paid within 28 days an application will be made to DVLA for the keeper’s details to enable enforcement of the charge.

I had 2 NTK issued 6 days after the PCN was placed on my car.

Does anybody have an IPC email address to complain about a member, I don't want to waste a stamp on these fools. I will also add this into my MP's letter.

Umkomaas

I had 2 NTK issued 6 days after the PCN was placed on my car.

Standard procedure with one of the 'myparkingcharge.com' things placed on the windscreen - they're actually working on the basis that this is a camera capture, which allows them to access your data as if it were an ANPR case. Unfortunately, the DVLA have swallowed the bait.

You're better targeting the DVLA with a complaint than the IPC.

ccrt@dvla.gov.uk

Does anybody have an IPC email address to complain about a member, I don't want to waste a stamp on these fools.

I'd be more concerned about wasting my time than wasting a stamp. Don't forget that the IPC are in existence to protect their members, the only interest they have in you is that you exist to provide their members with income. They will have no interest in your complaint.

There is no advertised email address for the IPC (go figure!), rather you have to first register with them (providing lots of your personal information) via their website before being allowed to make any contact.

[Deleted User]

The IPC code of practice is dross. The sign is the contract that they will try to enforce. What does that say?

JesterShoe

Yes I understand, I will post a picture soonest. I have started writing to my MP to vent some of my annoyance, instead!

If a person was to enter into a contract to park, and the PPC failed to issue, manage, and control the permits are they not in breach of contract even before accusing me of a permit violation.

JesterShoe

This is the signage.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SrVweJDPNbMeBEoz7

It is very intimidating, uninformative and inflexible! especially for a residential site.