The Top Easy Access Savings Discussion Area

eskbanker

RG2015 said:

polymaff said:

RG2015 said:

eskbanker said:

(1+(0.0184/12))^12 = 1.0186

I take it back. It's not at all complicated.

How did I not know this!  

PS. I can even put the formula into Excel as it is.

Don't forget to build into the Excel formula the ability to recognise a non-working day and adjust the predicted monthly payment appropriately - both for that month and the following month.  A little complicated for a weekend, a lot more complicated for other non-working days...;)

I could go on!...

OMG! It is complicated after all. 

I will leave that particular Excel modelling until interest rates have reached a level where it makes an actual flipping difference.

It's horses for courses, the formula I posted was simply intended to illustrate the difference between monthly gross rates and AER, but for anyone looking to model actual monthly interest on a given account then that's an entirely different exercise!

RG2015

eskbanker said:

RG2015 said:

polymaff said:

RG2015 said:

eskbanker said:

(1+(0.0184/12))^12 = 1.0186

I take it back. It's not at all complicated.

How did I not know this!  

PS. I can even put the formula into Excel as it is.

Don't forget to build into the Excel formula the ability to recognise a non-working day and adjust the predicted monthly payment appropriately - both for that month and the following month.  A little complicated for a weekend, a lot more complicated for other non-working days...;)

I could go on!...

OMG! It is complicated after all. 

I will leave that particular Excel modelling until interest rates have reached a level where it makes an actual flipping difference.

It's horses for courses, the formula I posted was simply intended to illustrate the difference between monthly gross rates and AER, but for anyone looking to model actual monthly interest on a given account then that's an entirely different exercise!

I will officially declare myself a non-runner before the digression forces descend upon me.

polymaff

eskbanker said:

RG2015 said:

polymaff said:

RG2015 said:

eskbanker said:

(1+(0.0184/12))^12 = 1.0186

I take it back. It's not at all complicated.

How did I not know this!  

PS. I can even put the formula into Excel as it is.

Don't forget to build into the Excel formula the ability to recognise a non-working day and adjust the predicted monthly payment appropriately - both for that month and the following month.  A little complicated for a weekend, a lot more complicated for other non-working days...;)

I could go on!...

OMG! It is complicated after all. 

I will leave that particular Excel modelling until interest rates have reached a level where it makes an actual flipping difference.

It's horses for courses, the formula I posted was simply intended to illustrate the difference between monthly gross rates and AER, but for anyone looking to model actual monthly interest on a given account then that's an entirely different exercise!

At least nobody has used the M-word!  Yet. Just arithmetic!

RG, you may know of  =TEXT(WEEKDAY(N740),"dddd")  already.  When pointed at a date (in this case, at cell N740) it displays the day of the week as a word.

Rollinghome

Rollinghome said:

ProDave said:

RG2015 said:

ProDave said:

So people, what is the best saving rate available please?

Best I have found is Santander ISA up to 2.8% but only on a fixes 2 year.  If you want instant access the best I have found is 1.5% also from Santander.

That seems pathetically low to me, I would have expected higher by now.  What have others found please?

Have you read any of the recent previous posts?

Not to mention the excellent top 10 post that is regularly updated. I think that is currently on page 700.

I have also read this https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest/

So the shawbrook account seems to be the best instant access at 1.81% at the moment, unless anyone has found better please which was the question.

MSE doesn't include Sharia banks which pay frequently pay better rates.  Try https://moneyfacts.co.uk/ for a fuller list and check out how Sharia banks differ.

eskbanker said:

Rollinghome said:

ProDave said:

I have also read this https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/savings/savings-accounts-best-interest/

So the shawbrook account seems to be the best instant access at 1.81% at the moment, unless anyone has found better please which was the question.

MSE doesn't include Sharia banks which pay frequently pay better rates.  Try https://moneyfacts.co.uk/ for a fuller list and check out how Sharia banks differ.

MSE does include Sharia banks - for example, the 2.1% Al Rayan account is listed alongside the traditional easy access products in that article.  Moneyfacts is undoubtedly more comprehensive though, as MSE has a policy of only listing the top few accounts rather than trying to summarise the entire market....

Sorry, I was basing that on something I read here, a normally impeccably reliable source obviously, and didn't bother to check. 

EDIT: I see, it's at the bottom of the instant access section, rather than included in the "Top-pick savings accounts"  at the top under the banner saying:

Top savings accounts

Up to 1.81% easy access or up to 3.61% fixed.

I'd rather that information presented differently, as the term "Top-pick" is very subjective and easily interpreted as meaning "the top rate payers" - which those at the top aren't.

There are easy-access savings rates up to 2.10%, not up to 1.81%, as the banner announces.

Would also help if it were made quite clear the reason why the top payer by a good margin is not considered to be a Top-pick so that savers could make their own judgement taking that reasoning into account.

Daliah

I agree, Top savings accounts should mention the top rate in the headline, not just leave off several top rates, or print them so far down the article that many people will overlook them.

I always use Moneyfacts, or the MSE Forum, if I want a complete picture.

eskbanker

Rollinghome said:
Would also help if it were made quite clear the reason why the top payer by a good margin is not considered to be a Top-pick so that savers could make their own judgement taking that reasoning into account.

They refer to such accounts as 'non-standard', but seem to have dropped their explanation of how Sharia products differ from 'standard' savings accounts, which I'm sure used to be in that article - the fact that it's an expected profit rate rather than interest is a valid distinction, even though the vast majority (but crucially not all) of such accounts have paid out the expected rate....

Edit: the article does still have the wording I was thinking of, but it's positioned within the fixed rate section for some reason:

• How do sharia accounts work?

  Sharia accounts – in accordance with Islamic banking principles – prohibit interest. Instead, they give 'expected profit' rates which, by definition, mean returns aren't guaranteed – though we're not aware of any UK-based sharia banks that have failed to pay their expected rates in the past.
  

  The accounts are open to anyone, of any faith, and the ones above are fully UK-regulated, meaning you get £85,000 per person, per institution savings safety protection. Sharia banks also follow a rule not to invest in areas such as gambling and alcohol.

Daliah

eskbanker said:

.......- the fact that it's an expected profit rate rather than interest is a valid distinction, even though the vast majority (but crucially not all) of such accounts have paid out the expected rate....

I have only got experience with Al Rayan and Gatehouse instant access accounts, with either of them advising of a lower than expected profit well in advance of the drop. This is effectively the same as your bank advising a drop in interest rate, so no need to differentiate.

I have a bit of a soft spot for Al Rayan as they recently still paid as much as 1.02% interest  profit months and months after everyone else had plunged to well below 0.7%. They were a bit slow with the recent increases, so I took all my money away from them, but it's all back now 

eskbanker

Daliah said:

eskbanker said:

.......- the fact that it's an expected profit rate rather than interest is a valid distinction, even though the vast majority (but crucially not all) of such accounts have paid out the expected rate....

I have only got experience with Al Rayan and Gatehouse instant access accounts, with either of them advising of a lower than expected profit well in advance of the drop. This is effectively the same as your bank advising a drop in interest rate, so no need to differentiate.

Yes, such notifications certainly protect the depositor in the same way that equivalent communications from 'standard' savings providers do, but the fact remains that conceptually an expected profit rate differs from interest, even though in practical terms that's unlikely to be hugely significant - perhaps worth noting that they also list Nationwide's FlexDirect current account at 5% as a non-standard option for easy access, even though it's clearly a better rate than all the others, so I can see their logic that it's a grey area with room for nuance, rather than simply 'best rate wins'....

Rollinghome

eskbanker said:

Rollinghome said:
Would also help if it were made quite clear the reason why the top payer by a good margin is not considered to be a Top-pick so that savers could make their own judgement taking that reasoning into account.

They refer to such accounts as 'non-standard', but seem to have dropped their explanation of how Sharia products differ from 'standard' savings accounts, which I'm sure used to be in that article - the fact that it's an expected profit rate rather than interest is a valid distinction, even though the vast majority (but crucially not all) of such accounts have paid out the expected rate....

Edit: the article does still have the wording I was thinking of, but it's positioned within the fixed rate section for some reason:

• How do sharia accounts work?

  Sharia accounts – in accordance with Islamic banking principles – prohibit interest. Instead, they give 'expected profit' rates which, by definition, mean returns aren't guaranteed – though we're not aware of any UK-based sharia banks that have failed to pay their expected rates in the past.
  

  The accounts are open to anyone, of any faith, and the ones above are fully UK-regulated, meaning you get £85,000 per person, per institution savings safety protection. Sharia banks also follow a rule not to invest in areas such as gambling and alcohol.

It is there, I saw it earlier, but only found by doing a page-search for the word "Shariah", and then following a drop-down link to read the text you correctly quote.

What's more, it isn't mentioned anywhere afaics, that the accounts that don't qualify for MSE's unexplained definition of "Top savings accounts" are Sharia. So why would anyone look for an explanation? Nor is it pointed out that, arguably, Sharia banks are required to operate to higher standards of social responsibility than many other banks

A lot of people of the Moslem faith are understandably very sensitive to wide-spread Islamophobia, and inept articles such as that could well be misinterpreted.

eskbanker

Rollinghome said:

eskbanker said:

Rollinghome said:
Would also help if it were made quite clear the reason why the top payer by a good margin is not considered to be a Top-pick so that savers could make their own judgement taking that reasoning into account.

They refer to such accounts as 'non-standard', but seem to have dropped their explanation of how Sharia products differ from 'standard' savings accounts, which I'm sure used to be in that article - the fact that it's an expected profit rate rather than interest is a valid distinction, even though the vast majority (but crucially not all) of such accounts have paid out the expected rate....

Edit: the article does still have the wording I was thinking of, but it's positioned within the fixed rate section for some reason:

• How do sharia accounts work?

  Sharia accounts – in accordance with Islamic banking principles – prohibit interest. Instead, they give 'expected profit' rates which, by definition, mean returns aren't guaranteed – though we're not aware of any UK-based sharia banks that have failed to pay their expected rates in the past.
  

  The accounts are open to anyone, of any faith, and the ones above are fully UK-regulated, meaning you get £85,000 per person, per institution savings safety protection. Sharia banks also follow a rule not to invest in areas such as gambling and alcohol.

It is there, I saw it earlier, but only found by doing a page-search for the word "Shariah", and then following a drop-down link to read the text you correctly quote.

What's more, it isn't mentioned anywhere afaics, that the accounts that don't qualify for MSE's unexplained definition of "Top savings accounts" are Sharia. So why would anyone look for an explanation? Nor is it pointed out that, arguably, Sharia banks are required to operate to higher standards of social responsibility than many other banks

A lot of people of the Moslem faith are understandably very sensitive to wide-spread Islamophobia, and inept articles such as that could well be misinterpreted.

I just went back to the article and the Al Rayan easy access account does actually refer to paying 'expected profit', with that term hyperlinked to wording similar or identical to the above, but yes, point taken that the references to Sharia accounts aren't particularly consistent, as with much else in an article refined and rewritten over many years.

Personally I'm unconvinced that this is symptomatic of Islamophobia but would suggest that, as this thread already veers off track down a variety of rabbit holes, this probably isn't the place to develop that particular line of debate!